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The meat eating culture is so ingrained some people literally don't see this option, when it is the easiest and most obvious solution.

ricardobayes 3y ago
As a plant-based eater, I wouldn't shame people for their dietary choices. Culture changes super slow and we need to accept this. I'm already pretty pleased how it's commonplace now in the UK to have vegan options.
- myshpa 3y ago
  > Culture changes super slow and we need to accept this. Would you be as accepting to a wife-beater, child abuser, slaver, homophobe, etc ? > The meat eating culture is so ingrained some people literally don't see this option, when it is the easiest and most obvious solution. How is this shaming?
  - ricardobayes 3y ago
    That's a straw-man argument
    - myshpa 3y ago
      Consuming meat & dairy is not a necessity for maintaining human health. The production of meat and dairy is correlated with acts of violence such as forced impregnation, separation of mothers and calves, dehorning, castration, debeaking, (not-really-humane) slaughter, and violent mishandling. If you don't believe me, see https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch If we acknowledge that animals are sentient beings, capable of cognition, fear, and suffering, even able to play computer games and browse social media, and that they are subjected to conditions akin to enslavement, it's not a stretch to draw parallels between this and other forms of oppression such as slavery, sexual exploitation, and domestic abuse. All of these were, at some point, also considered normal and socially acceptable.
      - ricardobayes 3y ago
        It's exactly because of people like you, that not even my closest colleagues know I'm vegan. This kind of agressive preaching is so disgusting.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        YellOh 3y ago
        I'm usually not bold enough to publicly say I'm vegan either, but come on, the person you're replying to clearly cares and has more of a spine than either of us. What would you prefer - we just don't talk about it ever, and let everyone act like the current atrocities we're committing don't exist?
      - goodbyesf 3y ago
        > If we acknowledge that animals are sentient beings, capable of cognition, fear, and suffering... it's not a stretch to draw parallels between this and other forms of oppression such as slavery, sexual exploitation, and domestic abuse. That's such an absurd flamebait that if you bother to think about it for a second, you'd realize how untenable your position is. If we accept your assertion, then then we would have to protect a deer from a bear, snake from a hawk and all kinds of fish from bluefin tuna. Do you suggest we arrest every bear, hawk and bluefin tuna that eats another sentient being? Would we have to arrest all dog and cat owners that feed their pets a healthy meat diet?
        OzyM 3y ago
        https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/animals-eat-animals https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/animals-eat-animals No, obviously vegans think arresting bears is dumb. This same "lions tho" argument has been made enough times to become a meme.
        goodbyesf 3y ago
        > No, obviously vegans think arresting bears is dumb. So you don't believe that animals are sentient and deserving of the same rights as humans. And yet vegans always push that angle. That's the argument that I was responding to. So you are on my side against the vegan I responded to. I love that a yourveganfallacyis is full of logical fallacies. I know I'll regret this because educating cultish vegans mired in nutrient deficient brain-fog is a no win situation but here goes... > Non-human animals do many things we find unethical; they steal, rape, eat their children and engage in other activities... No. We don't find that unethical at all. Nobody finds an animals stealing, raping, cannibalizing their young, etc unethical because animals are animals. Ethics doesn't apply to animals. Basics of logic, if your premise is flawed then so is your conclusion. > This means it is illogical to claim that we should eat the same diet certain non-human animals do. Animals eat plants. So it's illogical to claim we should eat plants. So silly. > And while we are capable of killing and eating them, it isn't necessary for our survival. It's necessary for our optimal living. Driving cars isn't necessary for our survival. Millions of sentient animals are killed by cars. Why not ban cars? Planes? Etc. > We aren't lions, and we know that we cannot justify taking the life of a sentient being for no better reason than our personal dietary preferences. If their being sentient is important then it is up to us to protect sentient animals from lions. We'd have to arrest all lions and give them meat supplements for the rest of their lives. So here we are, back to sentience because that's the crux of the matter even though you denied it in the beginning. Without sentience, what argument is there? Without sentience, eating an animal is no different than eating plants. But wait. What if plants have sentience? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34558231/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34558231/ https://gizmodo.com/is-plant-intelligence-just-a-human-fantasy-1844217825 https://gizmodo.com/is-plant-intelligence-just-a-human-fanta... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/biocentrism/201703/are-plants-aware https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/biocentrism/201703/a... How will you vegans live with yourselves for destroying sentient plants?
avgcorrection 3y ago
Then become an activist for making meat consumption illegal. That’s the easiest solution within that easiest solution. Alternatively you can try to convince individuals to become vegetarians, which is a leass easy solution within that easiest solution. ;)

ricardobayes 3y ago

As a plant-based eater, I wouldn't shame people for their dietary choices. Culture changes super slow and we need to accept this. I'm already pretty pleased how it's commonplace now in the UK to have vegan options.

myshpa 3y ago
> Culture changes super slow and we need to accept this. Would you be as accepting to a wife-beater, child abuser, slaver, homophobe, etc ? > The meat eating culture is so ingrained some people literally don't see this option, when it is the easiest and most obvious solution. How is this shaming?
- ricardobayes 3y ago
  That's a straw-man argument
  - myshpa 3y ago
    Consuming meat & dairy is not a necessity for maintaining human health. The production of meat and dairy is correlated with acts of violence such as forced impregnation, separation of mothers and calves, dehorning, castration, debeaking, (not-really-humane) slaughter, and violent mishandling. If you don't believe me, see https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch If we acknowledge that animals are sentient beings, capable of cognition, fear, and suffering, even able to play computer games and browse social media, and that they are subjected to conditions akin to enslavement, it's not a stretch to draw parallels between this and other forms of oppression such as slavery, sexual exploitation, and domestic abuse. All of these were, at some point, also considered normal and socially acceptable.
    - ricardobayes 3y ago
      It's exactly because of people like you, that not even my closest colleagues know I'm vegan. This kind of agressive preaching is so disgusting.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - YellOh 3y ago
        I'm usually not bold enough to publicly say I'm vegan either, but come on, the person you're replying to clearly cares and has more of a spine than either of us. What would you prefer - we just don't talk about it ever, and let everyone act like the current atrocities we're committing don't exist?
    - goodbyesf 3y ago
      > If we acknowledge that animals are sentient beings, capable of cognition, fear, and suffering... it's not a stretch to draw parallels between this and other forms of oppression such as slavery, sexual exploitation, and domestic abuse. That's such an absurd flamebait that if you bother to think about it for a second, you'd realize how untenable your position is. If we accept your assertion, then then we would have to protect a deer from a bear, snake from a hawk and all kinds of fish from bluefin tuna. Do you suggest we arrest every bear, hawk and bluefin tuna that eats another sentient being? Would we have to arrest all dog and cat owners that feed their pets a healthy meat diet?
      - OzyM 3y ago
        https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/animals-eat-animals https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/animals-eat-animals No, obviously vegans think arresting bears is dumb. This same "lions tho" argument has been made enough times to become a meme.
        goodbyesf 3y ago
        > No, obviously vegans think arresting bears is dumb. So you don't believe that animals are sentient and deserving of the same rights as humans. And yet vegans always push that angle. That's the argument that I was responding to. So you are on my side against the vegan I responded to. I love that a yourveganfallacyis is full of logical fallacies. I know I'll regret this because educating cultish vegans mired in nutrient deficient brain-fog is a no win situation but here goes... > Non-human animals do many things we find unethical; they steal, rape, eat their children and engage in other activities... No. We don't find that unethical at all. Nobody finds an animals stealing, raping, cannibalizing their young, etc unethical because animals are animals. Ethics doesn't apply to animals. Basics of logic, if your premise is flawed then so is your conclusion. > This means it is illogical to claim that we should eat the same diet certain non-human animals do. Animals eat plants. So it's illogical to claim we should eat plants. So silly. > And while we are capable of killing and eating them, it isn't necessary for our survival. It's necessary for our optimal living. Driving cars isn't necessary for our survival. Millions of sentient animals are killed by cars. Why not ban cars? Planes? Etc. > We aren't lions, and we know that we cannot justify taking the life of a sentient being for no better reason than our personal dietary preferences. If their being sentient is important then it is up to us to protect sentient animals from lions. We'd have to arrest all lions and give them meat supplements for the rest of their lives. So here we are, back to sentience because that's the crux of the matter even though you denied it in the beginning. Without sentience, what argument is there? Without sentience, eating an animal is no different than eating plants. But wait. What if plants have sentience? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34558231/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34558231/ https://gizmodo.com/is-plant-intelligence-just-a-human-fantasy-1844217825 https://gizmodo.com/is-plant-intelligence-just-a-human-fanta... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/biocentrism/201703/are-plants-aware https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/biocentrism/201703/a... How will you vegans live with yourselves for destroying sentient plants?

avgcorrection 3y ago

Then become an activist for making meat consumption illegal. That’s the easiest solution within that easiest solution. Alternatively you can try to convince individuals to become vegetarians, which is a leass easy solution within that easiest solution. ;)