12 ms·

> The record companies did a fantastic job of killing music all by themselves It wasn't the record companies which ruined the music industry. It was us, the co

> The record companies did a fantastic job of killing music all by themselves It wasn't the record companies which ruined the music industry. It was us, the consumers. We ruined it with piracy. https://i.insider.com/4d5ea2acccd1d54e7c030000 https://i.insider.com/4d5ea2acccd1d54e7c030000 We always like to imagine big organizations as the "baddies", and us as the "goodies". But the reality doesn't always follow this convenient narrative. Sometimes it turns out we were the baddies all along.

arlcode 3y ago
It looks way different if you include data of the last 14 years though (even inflation adjusted) https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/ https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/
- cubefox 3y ago
  This isn't inflation adjusted as far as I can see. Even if it were, the revenue now should be much higher than in 1999, given that the world economy grew a lot since then. Here is an actual inflation adjusted chart, which looks pretty damning: https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/US-recorded-music-revs-1999-v-2020.png https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/...
Kuinox 3y ago
You are trying to collerate loss of revenue with the loss caused by piracy, without any data of loss caused by piracy. Also, showing a graph without the last 10 years is making the data lying: https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database The music industry earnings has never been that high than today. Also, actual studies shows piracy helped sales, not hindered earnings: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy...
- cubefox 3y ago
  > You are trying to collerate loss of revenue with the loss caused by piracy, without any data of loss caused by piracy. The only explanation for the complete collapse of CD sales starting in 1999 is piracy. Napster & Co. Anything else is dishonest. > Also, showing a graph without the last 10 years is making the data lying: https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database No, this data is lying because it ignores inflation. Here is an inflation adjusted chart, which shows a massive drop in revenue: https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/US-recorded-music-revs-1999-v-2020.png https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/... Moreover, even if revenue were on the same level today as it was more than 20 years ago, which it isn't, this would ignore the fact that in the meantime the global economy has increased substantially, such that the revenue without piracy would be much higher than back then. > Also, actual studies shows piracy helped sales, not hindered earnings: This is about video games and highly speculative. For music there is overwhelming evidence that piracy completely crushed the CD market.
  - Kuinox 3y ago
    There is so much evidence you failed to source it.
  - seba_dos1 3y ago
    About a decade ago there used to be a site in the Polish internet called "Strata Kazika" (Kazik's Loss). At that time Kazik was one of the most vocal anti-piracy artists who equaled copying to stealing. So the site's shtick was to take Kazik's newest album and copy it. Then delete to make place for another copy. In a loop. The site then counted how much money has been already stolen from Kazik in the process, and you could also copy albums by yourself locally and report it on the site, incrementing the overall counter. I have to admit that I have participated in this highly unethical venture myself, and as far as I remember we have collectively managed to steal billions of dollars this way. We were supposed to split our loot and all get super rich. However, the site isn't available anymore. I suspect its author simply took the money and ran away...
    - 3y ago
jacquesm 3y ago
The number of consumers that pirated music increased mostly because the record companies missed the boat in the third round of being able to sell us the same music. They quite literally sat on their hands for years while there was huge demand for online music. iTunes finally served that demand and Apple made a bundle of money on that. Before that CDs sold for twice the amount that the original records cost when they came out ('they will last forever, and they're as good as the original masters'). You seem to have a strong conviction that piracy killed the music industry but they didn't need our help to do so, the quality on offer went down, the back catalog is large enough to sustain you for a lifetime (or even longer) and given the choice between something modern and something old I find myself picking 'something old' more and more frequently. There are some exceptions, but these are happening with lower frequency every year. It's probably a function of getting older but I'd just as soon listen to an old record by Kate Bush, 10CC, or a classical recording from the 1950's or 60's than that I will listen to something new that doesn't register with me. I can't remember when I last had the radio on, the only one I have is in the car and I probably didn't even bother plugging in the antenna. Piracy had absolutely nothing to do with it - for me. I spent a small fortune on music and would have been happy to continue to do so. But the innovators dilemma is harsh and the music industry was too caught up in combating piracy to see that installing root kits on people's computers (Sony) or suing your artists (everybody else) is bad policy for a middle man. And so they faded. A bit late, perhaps, but I think it was inevitable. The ones (labels, not artists) that survive into the streaming era are doing well enough financially, but the music they put out just isn't compelling to me. To this day there is a levy on any storage medium that goes to the local equivalent of the RIAA.
- cubefox 3y ago
  > The number of consumers that pirated music increased mostly because the record companies missed the boat in the third round of being able to sell us the same music. They quite literally sat on their hands for years while there was huge demand for online music. iTunes finally served that demand and Apple made a bundle of money on that. That's not true. iTunes or Spotify did not nearly compensate for lost CD revenue. https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/US-recorded-music-revs-1999-v-2020.png https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/...
rawTruthHurts 3y ago
I'd say it was more like a joint effort. I agree with your points, but I was related to the industry for some time, and sometimes money was spent on things like renting a Concorde flight for some exec in France because he was making it late to a meeting in NY.

arlcode 3y ago

It looks way different if you include data of the last 14 years though (even inflation adjusted) https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/ https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/

cubefox 3y ago
This isn't inflation adjusted as far as I can see. Even if it were, the revenue now should be much higher than in 1999, given that the world economy grew a lot since then. Here is an actual inflation adjusted chart, which looks pretty damning: https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/US-recorded-music-revs-1999-v-2020.png https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/...

Kuinox 3y ago

You are trying to collerate loss of revenue with the loss caused by piracy, without any data of loss caused by piracy. Also, showing a graph without the last 10 years is making the data lying: https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database The music industry earnings has never been that high than today. Also, actual studies shows piracy helped sales, not hindered earnings: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy...

cubefox 3y ago
> You are trying to collerate loss of revenue with the loss caused by piracy, without any data of loss caused by piracy. The only explanation for the complete collapse of CD sales starting in 1999 is piracy. Napster & Co. Anything else is dishonest. > Also, showing a graph without the last 10 years is making the data lying: https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database No, this data is lying because it ignores inflation. Here is an inflation adjusted chart, which shows a massive drop in revenue: https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/US-recorded-music-revs-1999-v-2020.png https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/... Moreover, even if revenue were on the same level today as it was more than 20 years ago, which it isn't, this would ignore the fact that in the meantime the global economy has increased substantially, such that the revenue without piracy would be much higher than back then. > Also, actual studies shows piracy helped sales, not hindered earnings: This is about video games and highly speculative. For music there is overwhelming evidence that piracy completely crushed the CD market.
- Kuinox 3y ago
  There is so much evidence you failed to source it.
- seba_dos1 3y ago
  About a decade ago there used to be a site in the Polish internet called "Strata Kazika" (Kazik's Loss). At that time Kazik was one of the most vocal anti-piracy artists who equaled copying to stealing. So the site's shtick was to take Kazik's newest album and copy it. Then delete to make place for another copy. In a loop. The site then counted how much money has been already stolen from Kazik in the process, and you could also copy albums by yourself locally and report it on the site, incrementing the overall counter. I have to admit that I have participated in this highly unethical venture myself, and as far as I remember we have collectively managed to steal billions of dollars this way. We were supposed to split our loot and all get super rich. However, the site isn't available anymore. I suspect its author simply took the money and ran away...
  - 3y ago

jacquesm 3y ago

The number of consumers that pirated music increased mostly because the record companies missed the boat in the third round of being able to sell us the same music. They quite literally sat on their hands for years while there was huge demand for online music. iTunes finally served that demand and Apple made a bundle of money on that. Before that CDs sold for twice the amount that the original records cost when they came out ('they will last forever, and they're as good as the original masters'). You seem to have a strong conviction that piracy killed the music industry but they didn't need our help to do so, the quality on offer went down, the back catalog is large enough to sustain you for a lifetime (or even longer) and given the choice between something modern and something old I find myself picking 'something old' more and more frequently. There are some exceptions, but these are happening with lower frequency every year. It's probably a function of getting older but I'd just as soon listen to an old record by Kate Bush, 10CC, or a classical recording from the 1950's or 60's than that I will listen to something new that doesn't register with me. I can't remember when I last had the radio on, the only one I have is in the car and I probably didn't even bother plugging in the antenna. Piracy had absolutely nothing to do with it - for me. I spent a small fortune on music and would have been happy to continue to do so. But the innovators dilemma is harsh and the music industry was too caught up in combating piracy to see that installing root kits on people's computers (Sony) or suing your artists (everybody else) is bad policy for a middle man. And so they faded. A bit late, perhaps, but I think it was inevitable. The ones (labels, not artists) that survive into the streaming era are doing well enough financially, but the music they put out just isn't compelling to me. To this day there is a levy on any storage medium that goes to the local equivalent of the RIAA.

cubefox 3y ago
> The number of consumers that pirated music increased mostly because the record companies missed the boat in the third round of being able to sell us the same music. They quite literally sat on their hands for years while there was huge demand for online music. iTunes finally served that demand and Apple made a bundle of money on that. That's not true. iTunes or Spotify did not nearly compensate for lost CD revenue. https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/US-recorded-music-revs-1999-v-2020.png https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/...

rawTruthHurts 3y ago

I'd say it was more like a joint effort. I agree with your points, but I was related to the industry for some time, and sometimes money was spent on things like renting a Concorde flight for some exec in France because he was making it late to a meeting in NY.