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I've never heard that "10% were captured and tortured" number before. When trying to learn more about it I found a Snopes article at https://www.snopes.com/fac
by eesmith 3y ago
I've never heard that "10% were captured and tortured" number before.
When trying to learn more about it I found a Snopes article at https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-price-they-paid/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-price-they-paid/ discussing a letter going around titled "The Price They Paid" making the claim "Five [of the 56] signers were captured by the British as traitors and tortured before they died."
Snopes comments that while five of the signers were indeed captured, four appear to have been treated as normal prisoners of war after being captured in battle ("they were not tortured, nor is there evidence that they were treated more harshly than other wartime prisoners who were not also signatories to the Declaration") and the fifth - singled out for signing - was sent to prison.
Wikipedia comments that the fifth, Richard Stockton, was "intentionally starved and subjected to freezing cold weather. After nearly five weeks of brutal treatment, Stockton was released on parole with his health ruined." quoting a 1823 biography.
But was that torture? Reading the biography, at https://archive.org/details/biographyofsign03sand/page/100/mode/2up?q=prison https://archive.org/details/biographyofsign03sand/page/100/m... , the issue appears to be that rich Mr. Stockton, used to living the high life, has been placed in the commoner jail rather than the comfy jail for rich people:
> On his removal to New York, he was ignominiously consigned to the common prison, and without the least regard for his rank, age, and delicate health, for some time treated with unusual severity.
As Congress described it, "that he hath been ignominiously thrown into a common gaol, and there detained".
And the common jail had horrible conditions. Quoting https://www.americanwars.org/american-prisoners-revolution/prisons-new-york-jonathan-gillett.htm https://www.americanwars.org/american-prisoners-revolution/p... :
> "The New Jail was made a Provost Prison, and here officers and men of note were confined. At one time they were so crowded into this building, that when they lay down upon the floor to sleep all in the row were obliged to turn over at the same time at the call, 'Turn over! Left! Right!'
> "The sufferings of these brave men were largely due to the criminal indifference of Loring, Sproat, Lennox, and other Commissaries of the prisoners.
> "Many of the captives were hanged in the gloom of night without trial and without a semblance of justice.
It doesn't seem like any of the founders were tortured during the war.
- junofan 3y agoThe Snopes article is misleading. Conditions for POWs at the time were appalling.
- eesmith 3y agoHow is the Snopes article misleading? They write "prison conditions were quite deplorable at the time". Appalling and deplorable, yes. But you said they were tortured. If appalling conditions = torture, then nearly all of the captured revolutionary troops were tortured, yes? As well as the captured British POWs held by the Americans? Which would mean both the US and Britain were systemically and institutionally engaged in wholesale torture of white British subjects (or at least people perceived to be British). Which would seem to diminish the severity of the term "torture". Also, Stockton wasn't a POW.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- eesmith 3y agoFor those downvoting me, at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36875273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36875273 I point out how the other four signers were NOT tortured and NOT held under appalling or deplorable conditions. The other four - who were POWs - had much better conditions. For example, three were held in St. Augustine under parole, with food, a quarter pint of rum daily, and considerable freedom of movement about the town. This is a far cry from being tortured.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago> intentionally starved and subjected to freezing cold weather. > Was that torture? Yes, that's quite clearly torture.
- mattmanser 3y agoYou should have read the rest of the comment. He was assigned to the commoner prison, not tortured. That's why he was cold and hungry.