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I keep hearing that trope that evil China is going to rip poor Africa to shreds, but not really seeing it so far? they have been building railroads and mines, a

I keep hearing that trope that evil China is going to rip poor Africa to shreds, but not really seeing it so far? they have been building railroads and mines, and haven't even dropped a single bomb so far... unlike those who tell us how truly evil China's plans are.

wonderwonder 3y ago
It's already started https://apnews.com/article/china-debt-banking-loans-financial-developing-countries-collapse-8df6f9fac3e1e758d0e6d8d5dfbd3ed6 https://apnews.com/article/china-debt-banking-loans-financia...
- dirtyid 3y ago
  No it's starting to get resolved, see recent Zambia debt restructure. The TLDR is western propaganda who owns majority of African debt wants to push PRC debt trap narrative to pressure PRC to take haircut losses while they don't. PRC said lol no, and after 2 years, traditional (i.e. IMF) and private lenders, most from west, finally agreed to debt restructuring on their end to.
junofan 3y ago
It’s called debt-trap diplomacy. China already forced Tajikistan to cede territory as part of a debt forgiveness deal. I believe they took over a port in Sri Lanka as well.
- sonotathrowaway 3y ago
  Is this more or less exploitive than the western powers? Shell will massacre villages that resist exploitation, how many massacres have the Chinese financed so far?
  - _2z1p 3y ago
    Off the top of my head there's the "Cultural Revolution", Tiananmen Square, the annexation of Tibet, and of course the ongoing genocide of the Uyghurs. The Western powers have done a lot of fucked up things, but that doesn't make China the good guys.
    - dryrun 3y ago
      Which are all local to their country, or depending on the point of view within close borders of their country. I wouldn't say it's the same situation.
      - lockhouse 3y ago
        Tibet was not their country.
  - Calamitous 3y ago
    What does this have to do with the west? Do the bad actions of Shell excuse those of China?
- midoridensha 3y ago
  Tajikstan borders China, so they were already vulnerable to Chinese territorial claims and military action. However, this isn't the case in Africa. If some African country (esp. an inland one) decides to default on loans to China, what's China going to do? China has almost no ability to project power on a faraway continent. Of course, China could cut off trade, but just how reliant on trade with China are African nations?
  - euroderf 3y ago
    Wouldn't debts to China end up being enforced by the worldwide banking system ? It's one big inescapable machine.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      >Wouldn't debts to China end up being enforced by the worldwide banking system ? No. What gave you that crazy idea? The banking system is dominated by western nations; why would they care about backing up China's claims?
      - euroderf 3y ago
        I assume that the worldwide banking system is not divided into "good creditors" and "bad creditors", it has all shades of grey. So that anyone who bucks the system is to be made into an example.
- dirtyid 3y ago
  >forced Tajikistan to cede territory Tajikstan ceded ~1300 sqkm to PRC a decade ago to settle border ratification deal from 2000s in which PRC ceded 28000 sqkm to Tajikstan. Some retarded western propaganda tried to tie this to a few billions of Tajik debt to PRC when the dispute settlement was made 10+ years before BRI was a thing. >It's called debt-trap diplomacy It's called Indian propaganda co-opted by west. Just like the Tajikstan claims. Poster child being Hambantota port which was India being butthurt after getting first dibs from Sri Lanka to develop port, but couldn't. Sri Lanka went to PRC after Canadian feasibility study, but the port was poorly run, hence selling 85% stake/99yr lease to China Merchant Ports in exchange for USD to service Sri Lanka's western debts that more qualifies as debt trap (~80% of foreign debt vs PRC ~10%), and seeing massive improvement in management and profitability.
albertopv 3y ago
Said the frog in the boiling water

wonderwonder 3y ago

It's already started https://apnews.com/article/china-debt-banking-loans-financial-developing-countries-collapse-8df6f9fac3e1e758d0e6d8d5dfbd3ed6 https://apnews.com/article/china-debt-banking-loans-financia...

dirtyid 3y ago
No it's starting to get resolved, see recent Zambia debt restructure. The TLDR is western propaganda who owns majority of African debt wants to push PRC debt trap narrative to pressure PRC to take haircut losses while they don't. PRC said lol no, and after 2 years, traditional (i.e. IMF) and private lenders, most from west, finally agreed to debt restructuring on their end to.

junofan 3y ago

It’s called debt-trap diplomacy. China already forced Tajikistan to cede territory as part of a debt forgiveness deal. I believe they took over a port in Sri Lanka as well.

sonotathrowaway 3y ago
Is this more or less exploitive than the western powers? Shell will massacre villages that resist exploitation, how many massacres have the Chinese financed so far?
- _2z1p 3y ago
  Off the top of my head there's the "Cultural Revolution", Tiananmen Square, the annexation of Tibet, and of course the ongoing genocide of the Uyghurs. The Western powers have done a lot of fucked up things, but that doesn't make China the good guys.
  - dryrun 3y ago
    Which are all local to their country, or depending on the point of view within close borders of their country. I wouldn't say it's the same situation.
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      Tibet was not their country.
- Calamitous 3y ago
  What does this have to do with the west? Do the bad actions of Shell excuse those of China?
midoridensha 3y ago
Tajikstan borders China, so they were already vulnerable to Chinese territorial claims and military action. However, this isn't the case in Africa. If some African country (esp. an inland one) decides to default on loans to China, what's China going to do? China has almost no ability to project power on a faraway continent. Of course, China could cut off trade, but just how reliant on trade with China are African nations?
- euroderf 3y ago
  Wouldn't debts to China end up being enforced by the worldwide banking system ? It's one big inescapable machine.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    >Wouldn't debts to China end up being enforced by the worldwide banking system ? No. What gave you that crazy idea? The banking system is dominated by western nations; why would they care about backing up China's claims?
    - euroderf 3y ago
      I assume that the worldwide banking system is not divided into "good creditors" and "bad creditors", it has all shades of grey. So that anyone who bucks the system is to be made into an example.
dirtyid 3y ago
>forced Tajikistan to cede territory Tajikstan ceded ~1300 sqkm to PRC a decade ago to settle border ratification deal from 2000s in which PRC ceded 28000 sqkm to Tajikstan. Some retarded western propaganda tried to tie this to a few billions of Tajik debt to PRC when the dispute settlement was made 10+ years before BRI was a thing. >It's called debt-trap diplomacy It's called Indian propaganda co-opted by west. Just like the Tajikstan claims. Poster child being Hambantota port which was India being butthurt after getting first dibs from Sri Lanka to develop port, but couldn't. Sri Lanka went to PRC after Canadian feasibility study, but the port was poorly run, hence selling 85% stake/99yr lease to China Merchant Ports in exchange for USD to service Sri Lanka's western debts that more qualifies as debt trap (~80% of foreign debt vs PRC ~10%), and seeing massive improvement in management and profitability.

albertopv 3y ago

Said the frog in the boiling water