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I wonder whether we'll be seeing a return back to basics in terms of the internet/applications soon. I find it amusing how programs from the 90s can have much b

I wonder whether we'll be seeing a return back to basics in terms of the internet/applications soon. I find it amusing how programs from the 90s can have much better usability, more features and better reliability than something released today in many cases. The optimist in me says that it will happen as almost everything popular becomes enshittified and unusable, so the "old" alternatives come back because they are just that much better, so a new cycle of innovation starts again. The pessimist in me says that it won't happen and in 5 years, we'll be using our computers as slightly larger phones and everything replaced with hyper-monetised, LLM-generated trash.

sdsaga12 3y ago
"Enshittified" is a valuable contribution to the lexicon.
- samplatt 3y ago
  Apparently coined by Cory Doctorow in January this year - https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/ https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/
phlakaton 3y ago
Maybe? A Gemini link just came across my feed the other day. It seems to be an underground scene, and its quirky protocol and format suggests it's going to remain an underground scene for quite some time. Back to basics is already available, in a sense, if you want it.
- indigochill 3y ago
  I hang out in that scene from time to time (particularly, the "tildeverse": https://tildeverse.org/ https://tildeverse.org/). IMO, it's necessarily an underground scene because mass culture wants big tech. It takes a certain awareness and commitment to principles to reject the convenience afforded by seemingly free everything that happens to be paid for by selling user data and all the other negatives that come with that (like engagement at any cost). True, there's a lot of free stuff in the tildeverse as well, but everything there exists because someone thinks it's cool and is willing to take on the financial hit to have it exist without asking for compensation.
ajsnigrutin 3y ago
> I find it amusing how programs from the 90s can have much better usability, more features and better reliability than something released today in many cases. Those programs were new then. Then 10 project managers were added, and each wanted something new (or in case of google, a new program altogether), new features, new design, new something, and instead of a good (and later maintained) program, we have software with pretty much the same features as in 1997, but suddenly uses 3 gigs of ram.
- rchaud 3y ago
  Those programs could also be paid for on a one-time basis. Bad software is less about PM bloat, and more about the SaaS model that incentivizes companies to continually add features and "make work", whether or not their customers have asked for it.
daveads5 3y ago
I don't foresee this happening anytime soon, given the abstractions that keep doubling.
causi 3y ago
A process that began with computing being easier and easier so users became less and less skilled has ended with companies that have their hooks in people from the moment they're old enough to work a touchscreen through the rest of their lives.
shortrounddev2 3y ago
I believe a lot of tech choices made over the last 10-15 years were a result of zero interest rates by the federal reserve. I think some of these things were good tech, and others were made to compensate for the rapid influx of bad bootcamp programmers who were needed to scale businesses with the free money coming out of the fed. I think with a more selective job market, people can make tech choices based more on tech and less on labor
- j45 3y ago
  The premature departure of flash, and the premature state of Javascript trying to be a hammer to everythign also contributed to this. Web apps were running fine with a bit of Jquery. Today's experiences are much more immersive for sure, and the technologies underpinning them are getting much more effective and efficient to write and maintain. Svelte is one that comes to mind.
kristofferg 3y ago
Indeed amusing! :) One could argue that they are back - but now as desktop webapps each with their own bundled browser. And making sure to drain the same proportion of available resources on the system. Edit: fixed typo
JohnFen 3y ago
> I wonder whether we'll be seeing a return back to basics in terms of the internet/applications soon. I am aware of a few underground scenes that are doing this. It seems like it's possible for one of them to break out into public consciousness and gain traction eventually.

sdsaga12 3y ago

"Enshittified" is a valuable contribution to the lexicon.

samplatt 3y ago
Apparently coined by Cory Doctorow in January this year - https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/ https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/

phlakaton 3y ago

Maybe? A Gemini link just came across my feed the other day. It seems to be an underground scene, and its quirky protocol and format suggests it's going to remain an underground scene for quite some time. Back to basics is already available, in a sense, if you want it.

indigochill 3y ago
I hang out in that scene from time to time (particularly, the "tildeverse": https://tildeverse.org/ https://tildeverse.org/). IMO, it's necessarily an underground scene because mass culture wants big tech. It takes a certain awareness and commitment to principles to reject the convenience afforded by seemingly free everything that happens to be paid for by selling user data and all the other negatives that come with that (like engagement at any cost). True, there's a lot of free stuff in the tildeverse as well, but everything there exists because someone thinks it's cool and is willing to take on the financial hit to have it exist without asking for compensation.

ajsnigrutin 3y ago

> I find it amusing how programs from the 90s can have much better usability, more features and better reliability than something released today in many cases. Those programs were new then. Then 10 project managers were added, and each wanted something new (or in case of google, a new program altogether), new features, new design, new something, and instead of a good (and later maintained) program, we have software with pretty much the same features as in 1997, but suddenly uses 3 gigs of ram.

rchaud 3y ago
Those programs could also be paid for on a one-time basis. Bad software is less about PM bloat, and more about the SaaS model that incentivizes companies to continually add features and "make work", whether or not their customers have asked for it.

daveads5 3y ago

I don't foresee this happening anytime soon, given the abstractions that keep doubling.

causi 3y ago

A process that began with computing being easier and easier so users became less and less skilled has ended with companies that have their hooks in people from the moment they're old enough to work a touchscreen through the rest of their lives.

shortrounddev2 3y ago

I believe a lot of tech choices made over the last 10-15 years were a result of zero interest rates by the federal reserve. I think some of these things were good tech, and others were made to compensate for the rapid influx of bad bootcamp programmers who were needed to scale businesses with the free money coming out of the fed. I think with a more selective job market, people can make tech choices based more on tech and less on labor

j45 3y ago
The premature departure of flash, and the premature state of Javascript trying to be a hammer to everythign also contributed to this. Web apps were running fine with a bit of Jquery. Today's experiences are much more immersive for sure, and the technologies underpinning them are getting much more effective and efficient to write and maintain. Svelte is one that comes to mind.

kristofferg 3y ago

Indeed amusing! :) One could argue that they are back - but now as desktop webapps each with their own bundled browser. And making sure to drain the same proportion of available resources on the system. Edit: fixed typo

JohnFen 3y ago

> I wonder whether we'll be seeing a return back to basics in terms of the internet/applications soon. I am aware of a few underground scenes that are doing this. It seems like it's possible for one of them to break out into public consciousness and gain traction eventually.