4 ms·

There's a definite opportunity to build a competitor to Apple and reach the hackers first: building a better PC for hackers to create new software built on Open

There's a definite opportunity to build a competitor to Apple and reach the hackers first: building a better PC for hackers to create new software built on Open Source and Web technologies. The cracks are starting to show with using Mac OSX as a primary machine for hacking. It's got unix under the hood, but every successive release has become more consumer focused and less hacker friendly. The proprietary nature of developing native apps also turns off a lot of the great OSS hackers. If you could get an all star team together with someone like Rahul Sood to design the hardware and someone like Miguel De Icaza to design the OS and developer APIs, you'd be well on your way to tackling this problem and building the next Apple. And this time, it could be a lot more open source friendly.

clavalle 15y ago
I don't see the difference between what you just described and what Canonical is doing with Ubuntu.
- unimpressive 15y ago
  Canonical != Hardware manufacturer. The problem with the hardware business is that good hardware takes money to make. It's not the sort of thing that you can fund on the kind of margins that most startup rounds deal with. (Disclosure: I have never attempted a startup or tried to obtain funding for one.)
- pi18n 15y ago
  I will not be upgrading to Lion or later -- I prefer Finder to have ~/Library, I don't want to see all the thousands of tiny UI images on my computer, I don't want the mouse to scroll backwards, or a stray finger on the mouse to go back a page in webkit when I wanted to scroll left. Don't get me started on the latest Xcodes, which I have to use at work. So, speaking as the target market, Ubuntu has created a horrible user experience with Unity, and have made it not worth the effort it takes to remove it. I will never run Ubuntu (desktop) again. My Linux laptop now runs Mint, which is fine but cannot connect to a network without the Gnome graphical configuration tool for whatever reason. probably layer 8 or ID10T in this case.
tesseract 15y ago
Do you think there is really a large number of hackers who are not satisfied by the Mac on the one hand, or Linux on a Thinkpad on the other, and who would buy into this new system? OK, so you really just want to target hackers first and then move into the consumer space once you have some traction. But consumers are starting to move away from laptops and toward things like smartphones and tablets. Apple is moving in this direction and has a head start. If you start by making laptops, Apple's head start is just going to grow. Better to figure out what is going to come after smartphones and tablets, and get there before Apple does. I don't see any particular reason to retrace Apple's steps and start by building a laptop. Some companies I suspect might be following a long-term strategy similar to this already: * Google, with the rumored heads-up display project based on Android * Jawbone * Razer (in this case Apple is not the target)
- stcredzero 15y ago
  Better to figure out what is going to come after smartphones and tablets, and get there before Apple does. I would figure out what the developing world needs the most and how they will be using computers and communications.
- cpeterso 15y ago
  > * Jawbone +1! I think Jawbone has a great opportunity for post-phone consumer devices. They have a strong brand and are branching out to non-headset form factors. I am surprised at how readily mainstream consumers have adopted Jawbone Bluetooth headsets. People where them all the time, even though 99% of the time they are not taking a phone call. They look like dorky Borgs, but I think this is a sign that mainstream society will be open to transhuman/cyborg enhancements.
- hkarthik 15y ago
  > Do you think there is really a large number of hackers who are not satisfied by the Mac on the one hand, or Linux on a Thinkpad on the other, and who would buy into this new system? I don't know if it's a large number yet, but it's growing and you can see the cracks sprouting. Most of the hardware outside of Apple's really sucks, and Apple's software ecosystem and the way they run things turns a lot of people off. If there was something viable to switch to, I think it could get some traction quickly, > Better to figure out what is going to come after smartphones and tablets, and get there before Apple does. I don't see any particular reason to retrace Apple's steps and start by building a laptop. This is intriguing. A Post PC device that hackers can use to create software. Definitely something that hasn't been fully explored. There are a few challenges, however. Hackers need significant hardware to get anything done. Also, most of our tools that have stood the test of time (Emacs, Vi, C, etc) require traditional keyboards as input.
nl 15y ago
It's here, but not how you think: http://www.raspberrypi.org/ http://www.raspberrypi.org/ Do you know any hacker who knows about Raspberry Pi and isn't planning on buying one? Radically undercutting existing platforms in price, but with comparable functionality enables totally new uses for general purpose computing devices. That's how to take on the Mac/PC business - not by hitting it head on.
- tomwalsham 15y ago
  rπ is a great project, but it's hardly out of left field. There have been plugins for years, at seriously affordable prices. You can buy a netbook for $100 these days and run Windows/Linux on it happily. rπ is interesting because of its positioning as a learning platform equivalent to the BBC Micro which nurtured David Braben and many of the other backers. Not because it holds some magical quality over Gumstix, BeagleBoard, PandaBoard, CottonCandy, GuruPlug, DreamPlug, Arduino etc.
  - nl 15y ago
    I think that purpose designed hardware at the $25 price point is a radically different proposition than a second hand netbook for 4 times the price (because you sure can't get a new Intel netbook for that price). It does hold a magical property over all the platforms you've mentioned: price. At $25 it's close to disposable, whereas I'm going to look after a $90 BeagleBoard.
  - unimpressive 15y ago
    I once walked into the Arduino IRC and asked if it could run maxima. The response was that I'd be lucky to get it to run Linux. The arduino costs more than $25. Everything you listed there costs more than the utility value it has for most people. For $25 a pop you can do innovative prototypes on the kids-allowance cheap. The size is an extra bonus. There is no end to the number of ~$50 projects I've thought up that consist of a pi and peripherals. To say that those other projects you mention are somehow comparable is ridiculous. They all cost multiples more money than the pi. The pi is really going to speak to my demographic: Teens in their basement who have no money to spend on flashy prototyping equipment. But have tons of ideas they want to try out. EDIT: And continuing, for doing a "production run" having multiples lower production costs is a serious advantage for cash strapped endeavors. Not sure if the pi foundation will let you order enough to do that though.
pnathan 15y ago
Agreed. My next laptop is going to be a Linux one, and I'm going to pay for a high-quality hardware system... I can only hope the drivers are high quality. I'd pay $2250 for a high-quality Linux laptop (roughly the price of my OSX laptop). :-)
- tlb 15y ago
  Linux runs great on an Apple MacBook.

clavalle 15y ago

I don't see the difference between what you just described and what Canonical is doing with Ubuntu.

unimpressive 15y ago
Canonical != Hardware manufacturer. The problem with the hardware business is that good hardware takes money to make. It's not the sort of thing that you can fund on the kind of margins that most startup rounds deal with. (Disclosure: I have never attempted a startup or tried to obtain funding for one.)
pi18n 15y ago
I will not be upgrading to Lion or later -- I prefer Finder to have ~/Library, I don't want to see all the thousands of tiny UI images on my computer, I don't want the mouse to scroll backwards, or a stray finger on the mouse to go back a page in webkit when I wanted to scroll left. Don't get me started on the latest Xcodes, which I have to use at work. So, speaking as the target market, Ubuntu has created a horrible user experience with Unity, and have made it not worth the effort it takes to remove it. I will never run Ubuntu (desktop) again. My Linux laptop now runs Mint, which is fine but cannot connect to a network without the Gnome graphical configuration tool for whatever reason. probably layer 8 or ID10T in this case.

tesseract 15y ago

Do you think there is really a large number of hackers who are not satisfied by the Mac on the one hand, or Linux on a Thinkpad on the other, and who would buy into this new system? OK, so you really just want to target hackers first and then move into the consumer space once you have some traction. But consumers are starting to move away from laptops and toward things like smartphones and tablets. Apple is moving in this direction and has a head start. If you start by making laptops, Apple's head start is just going to grow. Better to figure out what is going to come after smartphones and tablets, and get there before Apple does. I don't see any particular reason to retrace Apple's steps and start by building a laptop. Some companies I suspect might be following a long-term strategy similar to this already: * Google, with the rumored heads-up display project based on Android * Jawbone * Razer (in this case Apple is not the target)

stcredzero 15y ago
Better to figure out what is going to come after smartphones and tablets, and get there before Apple does. I would figure out what the developing world needs the most and how they will be using computers and communications.
cpeterso 15y ago
> * Jawbone +1! I think Jawbone has a great opportunity for post-phone consumer devices. They have a strong brand and are branching out to non-headset form factors. I am surprised at how readily mainstream consumers have adopted Jawbone Bluetooth headsets. People where them all the time, even though 99% of the time they are not taking a phone call. They look like dorky Borgs, but I think this is a sign that mainstream society will be open to transhuman/cyborg enhancements.
hkarthik 15y ago
> Do you think there is really a large number of hackers who are not satisfied by the Mac on the one hand, or Linux on a Thinkpad on the other, and who would buy into this new system? I don't know if it's a large number yet, but it's growing and you can see the cracks sprouting. Most of the hardware outside of Apple's really sucks, and Apple's software ecosystem and the way they run things turns a lot of people off. If there was something viable to switch to, I think it could get some traction quickly, > Better to figure out what is going to come after smartphones and tablets, and get there before Apple does. I don't see any particular reason to retrace Apple's steps and start by building a laptop. This is intriguing. A Post PC device that hackers can use to create software. Definitely something that hasn't been fully explored. There are a few challenges, however. Hackers need significant hardware to get anything done. Also, most of our tools that have stood the test of time (Emacs, Vi, C, etc) require traditional keyboards as input.

nl 15y ago

It's here, but not how you think: http://www.raspberrypi.org/ http://www.raspberrypi.org/ Do you know any hacker who knows about Raspberry Pi and isn't planning on buying one? Radically undercutting existing platforms in price, but with comparable functionality enables totally new uses for general purpose computing devices. That's how to take on the Mac/PC business - not by hitting it head on.

tomwalsham 15y ago
rπ is a great project, but it's hardly out of left field. There have been plugins for years, at seriously affordable prices. You can buy a netbook for $100 these days and run Windows/Linux on it happily. rπ is interesting because of its positioning as a learning platform equivalent to the BBC Micro which nurtured David Braben and many of the other backers. Not because it holds some magical quality over Gumstix, BeagleBoard, PandaBoard, CottonCandy, GuruPlug, DreamPlug, Arduino etc.
- nl 15y ago
  I think that purpose designed hardware at the $25 price point is a radically different proposition than a second hand netbook for 4 times the price (because you sure can't get a new Intel netbook for that price). It does hold a magical property over all the platforms you've mentioned: price. At $25 it's close to disposable, whereas I'm going to look after a $90 BeagleBoard.
- unimpressive 15y ago
  I once walked into the Arduino IRC and asked if it could run maxima. The response was that I'd be lucky to get it to run Linux. The arduino costs more than $25. Everything you listed there costs more than the utility value it has for most people. For $25 a pop you can do innovative prototypes on the kids-allowance cheap. The size is an extra bonus. There is no end to the number of ~$50 projects I've thought up that consist of a pi and peripherals. To say that those other projects you mention are somehow comparable is ridiculous. They all cost multiples more money than the pi. The pi is really going to speak to my demographic: Teens in their basement who have no money to spend on flashy prototyping equipment. But have tons of ideas they want to try out. EDIT: And continuing, for doing a "production run" having multiples lower production costs is a serious advantage for cash strapped endeavors. Not sure if the pi foundation will let you order enough to do that though.

pnathan 15y ago

Agreed. My next laptop is going to be a Linux one, and I'm going to pay for a high-quality hardware system... I can only hope the drivers are high quality. I'd pay $2250 for a high-quality Linux laptop (roughly the price of my OSX laptop). :-)

tlb 15y ago
Linux runs great on an Apple MacBook.