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ASML's crown jewels are not mere "tools", they are machines. It is bleeding edge technology and entirely irrelevant to a general discussion of economics of 'too

ASML's crown jewels are not mere "tools", they are machines. It is bleeding edge technology and entirely irrelevant to a general discussion of economics of 'tool makers'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ge2RcvDlgw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ge2RcvDlgw

ggm 3y ago
and GDB isn't a machine?
- 36870059 3y ago
  Anyone can make a GDB. Haven't you noticed? Superpowers are fighting over ASML..
  - ggm 3y ago
    computers & software have been subject to ITAR regulations since decades. The implication is that superpowers are fighting over code.
nwiswell 3y ago
In the industry they are very literally called "tools". No one calls them "machines". E.g., "the fab is ordering another six EUV tools". Similarly a lathe or vertical mill is "a machine tool". They're ideally suited for a very specific task in the process of making a thing. It's possible for something to be both a machine and a tool. If we're being pedantic, the ASML tools (and indeed any modern wafer fabrication equipment) are also robots. More related to the business of tool making broadly, however, the entire industry of semiconductor wafer fabrication equipment (WFE) is quite profitable and margins tend to be generous. Much of the industry is very technical and does involve "bleeding edge technology", but not all of it. The publicly traded Japanese company Disco makes tools for wafer grinding[1], which are not really any more complex than your typical computer-controlled metal cutting machine tools, yet they are quite profitable[2]. Just look at those headline margin figures! It seems to be a matter of niche and competition. [1]: https://www.disco.co.jp/eg/products/grinder/dfg8560.html https://www.disco.co.jp/eg/products/grinder/dfg8560.html [2]: https://www.disco.co.jp/eg/ir/library/doc/film/20230420.pdf https://www.disco.co.jp/eg/ir/library/doc/film/20230420.pdf

ggm 3y ago

and GDB isn't a machine?

36870059 3y ago
Anyone can make a GDB. Haven't you noticed? Superpowers are fighting over ASML..
- ggm 3y ago
  computers & software have been subject to ITAR regulations since decades. The implication is that superpowers are fighting over code.

nwiswell 3y ago

In the industry they are very literally called "tools". No one calls them "machines". E.g., "the fab is ordering another six EUV tools". Similarly a lathe or vertical mill is "a machine tool". They're ideally suited for a very specific task in the process of making a thing. It's possible for something to be both a machine and a tool. If we're being pedantic, the ASML tools (and indeed any modern wafer fabrication equipment) are also robots. More related to the business of tool making broadly, however, the entire industry of semiconductor wafer fabrication equipment (WFE) is quite profitable and margins tend to be generous. Much of the industry is very technical and does involve "bleeding edge technology", but not all of it. The publicly traded Japanese company Disco makes tools for wafer grinding[1], which are not really any more complex than your typical computer-controlled metal cutting machine tools, yet they are quite profitable[2]. Just look at those headline margin figures! It seems to be a matter of niche and competition. [1]: https://www.disco.co.jp/eg/products/grinder/dfg8560.html https://www.disco.co.jp/eg/products/grinder/dfg8560.html [2]: https://www.disco.co.jp/eg/ir/library/doc/film/20230420.pdf https://www.disco.co.jp/eg/ir/library/doc/film/20230420.pdf