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Was recently reflecting on this about my own undergrad admissions cycle. Got me wondering: what percent of students at these institutions are there simply off o

Was recently reflecting on this about my own undergrad admissions cycle. Got me wondering: what percent of students at these institutions are there simply off of academic talent and not some of the larger extraneous factor such as legacy/sports recruitment/family donated a building? Because that was me, just some regular lower class guy who had good grades and a not particularly unique angle. It used to bother me a lot that somehow these other people were "better" than me but I realized not too long ago that in reality, these schools are simply not meant for people like me but instead they are for the elites. In retrospect, I wish I had spent more time learning about and pursuing the high ranking "techy" type schools like MIT/UMich/Caltech/Cal and less time chasing after these "prestigious" ivies. Plus, out of my generation of cousins (n=30+) only 5 went to an Ivy League school or equivalent and 2 of them went to the same high school as Bill Gates and the other 3 were sports recruits. Anecdotal of course but even amongst my high school class the only people who went to an Ivy league had 1) Ivy league professors as parents or 2) multi-millionaire levels of wealth.

csa 3y ago
> what percent of students at these institutions are there simply off of academic talent and not some of the larger extraneous factor Very few actually get in purely based on academics. Very, very few. Most folks who are admitted have good enough academics (with “good enough” being relatively high but not unreasonable) with something else that sets them apart. Usually this is something that sets them apart at an international, national, or (maybe) regional level, or some sort of demonstrated ability to do something interesting (broadly defined), especially if in a leadership role. > and a not particularly unique angle You probably did not realize what your actual unique angle was, or you grossly undervalue that unique angle.
- lokar 3y ago
  I suspect “good enough” is approaching the sensitivity of the measurement approach. Grades and test scores give a widely over stated level of precision for academic aptitude.
lukewrites 3y ago
> only 5 went to an Ivy League school or equivalent and 2 of them went to the same high school as Bill Gates and the other 3 were sports recruits We've been touring some high schools that include the one Gates went to. They love to tout their Ivy admission successes, but really don't love to be asked how many of those admits are legacies. It's more and more clear that it's a racket for the elites. I will do everything in my power to make sure that my kids recognize it for the bs that it is.
- waswaswas 3y ago
  In my experience rubbing shoulders in these circles, kids going to the top tier prep schools are often just really impressive--the culture at these schools normalizes an expectation of high achievement across multiple domains. Not uncommon to see the same kid be a starting quarterback on the football team, an award winning painter, and a nationally ranked debater. I got into an Ivy equivalent college by enthusiastically pursuing my interests at a less competitive high school, and frankly, I think I might have cracked under the pressure at one of these top tier prep schools. I completely believe that there are many majors/programs at Harvard no more rigorous/educational than those at decent large state universities, but make no mistake, these top tier prep schools are often leaps and bounds more difficult/rigorous than well ranked suburban public high schools, outside of the nationally exceptional magnets like Thomas Jefferson or Bronx Science.
strikelaserclaw 3y ago
only 5 ? Thats a lot. Most families don't even have 1.
sudosteph 3y ago
> Anecdotal of course but even amongst my high school class the only people who went to an Ivy league had 1) Ivy league professors as parents or 2) multi-millionaire levels of wealth. I once did a LinkedIn search on my cohort of I.B. students from middle and high school, saw the exact same thing play out. The children of doctors and professors went to Ivies for undergrad, but nearly everyone went to competitive public schools (UNC, GA Tech) or "nearly ivy" (ex: Duke) and a large number now have advanced degrees from great schools. I don't think the Ivy kids actually did much better from what I can tell. But I think it's cultural/regional too, I don't think I ever met anyone growing up who went to an Ivy. I basically chose my top-choice college based on my Mom's favorite in-state basketball team (NC State) and never even considered non-public an option.
supportengineer 3y ago
5 cousins - are you sure you are not a legacy yourself?

csa 3y ago

> what percent of students at these institutions are there simply off of academic talent and not some of the larger extraneous factor Very few actually get in purely based on academics. Very, very few. Most folks who are admitted have good enough academics (with “good enough” being relatively high but not unreasonable) with something else that sets them apart. Usually this is something that sets them apart at an international, national, or (maybe) regional level, or some sort of demonstrated ability to do something interesting (broadly defined), especially if in a leadership role. > and a not particularly unique angle You probably did not realize what your actual unique angle was, or you grossly undervalue that unique angle.

lokar 3y ago
I suspect “good enough” is approaching the sensitivity of the measurement approach. Grades and test scores give a widely over stated level of precision for academic aptitude.

lukewrites 3y ago

> only 5 went to an Ivy League school or equivalent and 2 of them went to the same high school as Bill Gates and the other 3 were sports recruits We've been touring some high schools that include the one Gates went to. They love to tout their Ivy admission successes, but really don't love to be asked how many of those admits are legacies. It's more and more clear that it's a racket for the elites. I will do everything in my power to make sure that my kids recognize it for the bs that it is.

waswaswas 3y ago
In my experience rubbing shoulders in these circles, kids going to the top tier prep schools are often just really impressive--the culture at these schools normalizes an expectation of high achievement across multiple domains. Not uncommon to see the same kid be a starting quarterback on the football team, an award winning painter, and a nationally ranked debater. I got into an Ivy equivalent college by enthusiastically pursuing my interests at a less competitive high school, and frankly, I think I might have cracked under the pressure at one of these top tier prep schools. I completely believe that there are many majors/programs at Harvard no more rigorous/educational than those at decent large state universities, but make no mistake, these top tier prep schools are often leaps and bounds more difficult/rigorous than well ranked suburban public high schools, outside of the nationally exceptional magnets like Thomas Jefferson or Bronx Science.

strikelaserclaw 3y ago

only 5 ? Thats a lot. Most families don't even have 1.

sudosteph 3y ago

> Anecdotal of course but even amongst my high school class the only people who went to an Ivy league had 1) Ivy league professors as parents or 2) multi-millionaire levels of wealth. I once did a LinkedIn search on my cohort of I.B. students from middle and high school, saw the exact same thing play out. The children of doctors and professors went to Ivies for undergrad, but nearly everyone went to competitive public schools (UNC, GA Tech) or "nearly ivy" (ex: Duke) and a large number now have advanced degrees from great schools. I don't think the Ivy kids actually did much better from what I can tell. But I think it's cultural/regional too, I don't think I ever met anyone growing up who went to an Ivy. I basically chose my top-choice college based on my Mom's favorite in-state basketball team (NC State) and never even considered non-public an option.

supportengineer 3y ago

5 cousins - are you sure you are not a legacy yourself?