4 ms·

> compound and significantly accelerate the timeline There's a misconception that the biosphere is a delicate machine that will have a catastrophic internal f

> compound and significantly accelerate the timeline There's a misconception that the biosphere is a delicate machine that will have a catastrophic internal failure if we don't follow the maintenance bibl^H^H^H^Hmanual, which apparently some experts have access to. In reality, it is a highly dynamic, self-repairing living organism, which we are a part of. There are at least as many negative feedback loops as positive ones. And we should act to maintain our survival, but doomsaying is not part of that. Doomsaying and fearmongering is about power.

jfim 3y ago
> Doomsaying and fearmongering is about power. Because every warning is about power dynamics, and obviously not about things being dangerous. We should get rid of that "can cause death if ingested" cartel that's putting all of those warnings on household products while at it.
- pphysch 3y ago
  You can't tell the difference between a practical safety advisory and doomsaying about a future rapture?
xg15 3y ago
What would be examples of negative feedback loops of comparable size?
- pphysch 3y ago
  Photosynthesis (carbon) cycle https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/151188/a-massive-seaweed-bloom-in-the-atlantic https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/151188/a-massive-se...
  - xg15 3y ago
    From what I get, yeah, there are several projects that try to use use seaweed on the open ocean to sequester CO2. [1] The yield seems to be mediocre though [2, 3]. For all seaweed that washes up on the shore, the effect reverses: It rots and releases CO2 and methane into the atmosphere. [4] So if it's a negative feedback loop, then a very weak one, if at all: CO2 emissions cause increased seaweed growth, but increased seaweed coverage doesn't meaningfully reduce greenhouse gas concentrations and in fact can even increase them. [1] https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2022/06/09/2459357/0/en/Groundbreaking-project-to-convert-Sargassum-seaweed-into-ethanol-for-use-in-plastics-C-Cause-selected-for-German-Government-s-Disruptive-Innovation-grant.html https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2022/06/09/245935... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721018696 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489... [3] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22837-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22837-2 [4] https://nsuworks.nova.edu/hcas_etd_all/113/ https://nsuworks.nova.edu/hcas_etd_all/113/
    - pphysch 3y ago
      The carbon we are releasing into the atmosphere started off in the atmosphere until it was consumed by organisms that turned into our fossil fuels.
layer8 3y ago
> it is a highly dynamic, self-repairing living organism Organisms are self-repairing (to a certain extent) because they evolved to be so due to natural selection. The Earth as a whole and its climate are not subject to evolutionary pressure (they don’t reproduce) and thus are nothing like that.
- boondoggle16 3y ago
  Actually, the earth is subject to evolutionary pressure in a sense. This is the only planet that supports life (that we know of). That's because it's natural properties endured through billions of years to support life. It's not exactly an arms race. And it's a different, but similar mechanism. But I think the underlying principles are the same. In this case, evolution won't look like the earth changing over time. It's more like, there are billions of potential earths out there, and over billions of years, some of them will more subtly change to support life. So, we may destroy our earth, but that doesn't impair the ability for other earths to evolve. We just may not see it.
  - californical 3y ago
    It’s definitely not subject to evolutionary pressure of any sort, because the earth is completely indifferent to life.
    - boondoggle16 3y ago
      I'm not understanding, your statement reads like a non-sequitur to me. Evolution has nothing to do with life.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - xg15 3y ago
        Evolution has nothing to do with life? What? How would you define evolution then?
yellowapple 3y ago
You're right in that the biosphere will probably be fine. The question is whether humanity will continue to exist within it.

jfim 3y ago

> Doomsaying and fearmongering is about power. Because every warning is about power dynamics, and obviously not about things being dangerous. We should get rid of that "can cause death if ingested" cartel that's putting all of those warnings on household products while at it.

pphysch 3y ago
You can't tell the difference between a practical safety advisory and doomsaying about a future rapture?

xg15 3y ago

What would be examples of negative feedback loops of comparable size?

pphysch 3y ago
Photosynthesis (carbon) cycle https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/151188/a-massive-seaweed-bloom-in-the-atlantic https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/151188/a-massive-se...
- xg15 3y ago
  From what I get, yeah, there are several projects that try to use use seaweed on the open ocean to sequester CO2. [1] The yield seems to be mediocre though [2, 3]. For all seaweed that washes up on the shore, the effect reverses: It rots and releases CO2 and methane into the atmosphere. [4] So if it's a negative feedback loop, then a very weak one, if at all: CO2 emissions cause increased seaweed growth, but increased seaweed coverage doesn't meaningfully reduce greenhouse gas concentrations and in fact can even increase them. [1] https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2022/06/09/2459357/0/en/Groundbreaking-project-to-convert-Sargassum-seaweed-into-ethanol-for-use-in-plastics-C-Cause-selected-for-German-Government-s-Disruptive-Innovation-grant.html https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2022/06/09/245935... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969721018696 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489... [3] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22837-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22837-2 [4] https://nsuworks.nova.edu/hcas_etd_all/113/ https://nsuworks.nova.edu/hcas_etd_all/113/
  - pphysch 3y ago
    The carbon we are releasing into the atmosphere started off in the atmosphere until it was consumed by organisms that turned into our fossil fuels.

layer8 3y ago

> it is a highly dynamic, self-repairing living organism Organisms are self-repairing (to a certain extent) because they evolved to be so due to natural selection. The Earth as a whole and its climate are not subject to evolutionary pressure (they don’t reproduce) and thus are nothing like that.

boondoggle16 3y ago
Actually, the earth is subject to evolutionary pressure in a sense. This is the only planet that supports life (that we know of). That's because it's natural properties endured through billions of years to support life. It's not exactly an arms race. And it's a different, but similar mechanism. But I think the underlying principles are the same. In this case, evolution won't look like the earth changing over time. It's more like, there are billions of potential earths out there, and over billions of years, some of them will more subtly change to support life. So, we may destroy our earth, but that doesn't impair the ability for other earths to evolve. We just may not see it.
- californical 3y ago
  It’s definitely not subject to evolutionary pressure of any sort, because the earth is completely indifferent to life.
  - boondoggle16 3y ago
    I'm not understanding, your statement reads like a non-sequitur to me. Evolution has nothing to do with life.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - xg15 3y ago
      Evolution has nothing to do with life? What? How would you define evolution then?

yellowapple 3y ago

You're right in that the biosphere will probably be fine. The question is whether humanity will continue to exist within it.