9 ms·

I cannot comprehend a position of total long COVID denial, though I have encountered it online. Every virus you can think of that causes acute illness, can cau

by retrac 3y ago

I cannot comprehend a position of total long COVID denial, though I have encountered it online. Every virus you can think of that causes acute illness, can cause long term or even permanent damage. Sometimes rarely, sometimes often. Even the mildest common cold viruses, can, in very rare cases, be severe enough to cause pneumonia which causes scarring which leads to permanent loss of lung function. Hepatitis A is usually cleared without issue but sometimes significant liver scarring happens. The poxes can be cleared by the immune system but often immense scarring of the affected tissues happens. Viral meningitis... For COVID to cause severe illness in a few % -- enough to kill in rare cases -- but to not cause permanent lung or heart or kidney damage etc. in some significant percent who got very sick is implausible, even incoherent with all other theories about how viral diseases cause disease.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
It makes sense to me unfortunately. If some small but significant portion of people will be disabled by this then what are we doing going to work, eating in restaurants? What does it mean about me if I stay home working but still get food delivered? Do gas station employees get sick days? If repeated exposure as children risks disability in adulthood then what are we doing sending our kids to school? In a world where being unable to work long-term means deprivation, misery and likely a preventable death? No, it can't be true. Much more comfortable to believe we wouldn't do this than to confront what it says about us that we have, or what we would have to change to prevent it.
- 1over137 3y ago
  >If some small but significant portion of people will be disabled by this then what are we doing going to work, eating in restaurants? We are living life. Driving your car is doing much more damage to your fellow man than someone eating at a restaurant.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Ya that's why I don't do that either.
- henearkr 3y ago
  You get food delivered but the delivery staff keep their mask on, you put your mask before seeing them, and all is perfectly fine. Mask is underrated. Everybody wanted to get rid of it. But why.
Nanana909 3y ago
> For COVID to cause severe illness in a few % -- enough to kill in rare cases -- but to not cause permanent lung or heart or kidney damage etc. in some significant percent who got very sick is implausible, even incoherent with all other theories about how viral diseases cause disease. So then why do we never talk about long flu? Long meningitis? I don’t think people are in disbelief COVID can cause long term damage to specific people. Obviously that’s a possibility. I think they don’t believe there is a specific disease called “long COVID”. Call it what it is - be that a damaged lung or heart or kidney. Hell even “post COVID symptomatic disease”. But “long COVID” strongly implies that you have a long, currently present case of COVID. That somehow just doesn’t show up on any tests. After 2 years.
- cjbgkagh 3y ago
  That’s not what LongCovid implies, that’s possibly referring to persistent spike proteins but that a separate thing. LongCovid specifically refers to post covid sequelae, as in not a chronic infection but the after effects from an acute infection. Viral impairments were called ME/CFS, the main difference now is that such a large number of people got it at one time which is making it more difficult to ignore.
  - Nanana909 3y ago
    99.999% of the population, including those who claim they have long COVID, do not know the words “persistent spike proteins” or “post COVID sequelae”. Therefore I assert you are incorrect, “long COVID” implies a “long case of COVID”. Similar to how no one would interpret “long marriage” to mean the after-effects of marriage. P.S. no I will not cite a source for the statistic nor will I cite one for the sky being blue.
    - cjbgkagh 3y ago
      Not sure what to say other than that you are flagrantly wrong.
      - 3y ago
llm_nerd 3y ago
You are absolutely correct. Any infection has the potential to cause serious, long-term problems. Often it is our own immune system going haywire. I don't think anyone has any problem with that notion. Severe illness is severe. I think pushback on long covid is when it is similar to antivaxxers claims of vax injuries -- where everything that anyone suffers after the event is lazily traced back to a single source, whether it's "got vaccinated" or "had covid". If someone who had a mild case of covid now attributes every mental state, malaise, physical discomfort, headaches, trouble concentrating, etc, to "long covid", it should properly earn skepticism.

by retrac 3y ago

giraffe_lady 3y ago

It makes sense to me unfortunately. If some small but significant portion of people will be disabled by this then what are we doing going to work, eating in restaurants? What does it mean about me if I stay home working but still get food delivered? Do gas station employees get sick days? If repeated exposure as children risks disability in adulthood then what are we doing sending our kids to school? In a world where being unable to work long-term means deprivation, misery and likely a preventable death? No, it can't be true. Much more comfortable to believe we wouldn't do this than to confront what it says about us that we have, or what we would have to change to prevent it.

1over137 3y ago
>If some small but significant portion of people will be disabled by this then what are we doing going to work, eating in restaurants? We are living life. Driving your car is doing much more damage to your fellow man than someone eating at a restaurant.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Ya that's why I don't do that either.
henearkr 3y ago
You get food delivered but the delivery staff keep their mask on, you put your mask before seeing them, and all is perfectly fine. Mask is underrated. Everybody wanted to get rid of it. But why.

Nanana909 3y ago

> For COVID to cause severe illness in a few % -- enough to kill in rare cases -- but to not cause permanent lung or heart or kidney damage etc. in some significant percent who got very sick is implausible, even incoherent with all other theories about how viral diseases cause disease. So then why do we never talk about long flu? Long meningitis? I don’t think people are in disbelief COVID can cause long term damage to specific people. Obviously that’s a possibility. I think they don’t believe there is a specific disease called “long COVID”. Call it what it is - be that a damaged lung or heart or kidney. Hell even “post COVID symptomatic disease”. But “long COVID” strongly implies that you have a long, currently present case of COVID. That somehow just doesn’t show up on any tests. After 2 years.

cjbgkagh 3y ago
That’s not what LongCovid implies, that’s possibly referring to persistent spike proteins but that a separate thing. LongCovid specifically refers to post covid sequelae, as in not a chronic infection but the after effects from an acute infection. Viral impairments were called ME/CFS, the main difference now is that such a large number of people got it at one time which is making it more difficult to ignore.
- Nanana909 3y ago
  99.999% of the population, including those who claim they have long COVID, do not know the words “persistent spike proteins” or “post COVID sequelae”. Therefore I assert you are incorrect, “long COVID” implies a “long case of COVID”. Similar to how no one would interpret “long marriage” to mean the after-effects of marriage. P.S. no I will not cite a source for the statistic nor will I cite one for the sky being blue.
  - cjbgkagh 3y ago
    Not sure what to say other than that you are flagrantly wrong.
    - 3y ago

llm_nerd 3y ago

You are absolutely correct. Any infection has the potential to cause serious, long-term problems. Often it is our own immune system going haywire. I don't think anyone has any problem with that notion. Severe illness is severe. I think pushback on long covid is when it is similar to antivaxxers claims of vax injuries -- where everything that anyone suffers after the event is lazily traced back to a single source, whether it's "got vaccinated" or "had covid". If someone who had a mild case of covid now attributes every mental state, malaise, physical discomfort, headaches, trouble concentrating, etc, to "long covid", it should properly earn skepticism.