3 ms·

Instead of a sugary drinks tax, how about ending corn subsidies that cause high fructose corn syrup to be so cheap? That would naturally cause soda to be more e

by umvi 3y ago

Instead of a sugary drinks tax, how about ending corn subsidies that cause high fructose corn syrup to be so cheap? That would naturally cause soda to be more expensive

rqtwteye 3y ago
That’s what I am thinking. I am ok with food subsidies but we should direct them towards healthy food.
citrin_ru 3y ago
I don't know exact numbers, but AFAIK even if HFCS will be 10x more expensive it will not increase drink price significantly because each can/bottle contains only a small (but still unhealthy) amount of it (and raw ingredients only a fraction of cost to begin with).
lofatdairy 3y ago
This is Monash U in Australia and seems pretty explicitly focused on the Australian context. Maybe corn is as subsidized there as it is in the states but a cursory search makes me skeptical. At any rate, this forum does attract a fairly international readership, but if we wanted a US-centric study we could maybe look at the long term outcomes from cities that have levied taxes (nothing state level it seems like), such as this study in Oakland, CA: https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1004212 https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/jo... I suppose we'd see something similar on a broader scale w/ a reduction in subsidies, but in terms of knock on effects and scale they're not _too_ comparable (i.e. SSBs are a single product, corn in general goes into a lot of different products, etc)
kjkjadksj 3y ago
Because sucrose coke is sold for the same price. Not a lot of high minimum wages where sugar cane is cut.
taminka 3y ago
i mean, for example here in europe there’s no such iiuc, sugary drinks are still way too sugary and way too cheap
gizmo686 3y ago
1) The profit margin on soda is massive, and HFCS is only a small portion of the cost. 2) What corn subsidies? We are talking about Australia. I am no expert in Australian economics, nor agricultural policy, but my understanding after a bit of searching is that they do not subsidize corn https://farmers.org.au/blog/farm-subsidies-in-australia-the-facts/ https://farmers.org.au/blog/farm-subsidies-in-australia-the-... You could argue that the US subsidy is effecting Australia through the global market. However, to the extent that this is relevent, Australia'a recourse would be a tarif on such products entering the market; at which point you might as well tax that which you want to discourage. 3) The problem is not high fructose corn syrup. It is sugar water. Granted, the exact composition of the sugar does have some effect. For a given amount of sugar, excess free fructose is probably worse for you than roughly equal proportions of fructose and glucose. Having said that, fructose tastes sweater for a given amount of sugar. So I'm not sure how it plays out in general. Having said that, according to the FDA, HFCS is either 42% or 55% fructose, which is lower than I would expect. (Actually. HFCS-42 sounds like low fructose. Most natural food has a 50-50 split.). https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/high-fructose-corn-syrup-questions-and-answers https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/high-fruct... Having said that, I did find fairly consistent reporting that sodas are closer to 60% fructose. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900714001920 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089990071...
Covzire 3y ago
I had to cut out all corn syrup due to a freak corn allergy that went from a nuisance to all over hives in early 2021. What surprised me most is that my cravings for sugary snacks/drinks is now virtually zero.

by umvi 3y ago

Instead of a sugary drinks tax, how about ending corn subsidies that cause high fructose corn syrup to be so cheap? That would naturally cause soda to be more expensive

rqtwteye 3y ago

That’s what I am thinking. I am ok with food subsidies but we should direct them towards healthy food.

citrin_ru 3y ago

I don't know exact numbers, but AFAIK even if HFCS will be 10x more expensive it will not increase drink price significantly because each can/bottle contains only a small (but still unhealthy) amount of it (and raw ingredients only a fraction of cost to begin with).

lofatdairy 3y ago

This is Monash U in Australia and seems pretty explicitly focused on the Australian context. Maybe corn is as subsidized there as it is in the states but a cursory search makes me skeptical. At any rate, this forum does attract a fairly international readership, but if we wanted a US-centric study we could maybe look at the long term outcomes from cities that have levied taxes (nothing state level it seems like), such as this study in Oakland, CA: https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1004212 https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/jo... I suppose we'd see something similar on a broader scale w/ a reduction in subsidies, but in terms of knock on effects and scale they're not _too_ comparable (i.e. SSBs are a single product, corn in general goes into a lot of different products, etc)

kjkjadksj 3y ago

Because sucrose coke is sold for the same price. Not a lot of high minimum wages where sugar cane is cut.

taminka 3y ago

i mean, for example here in europe there’s no such iiuc, sugary drinks are still way too sugary and way too cheap

gizmo686 3y ago

1) The profit margin on soda is massive, and HFCS is only a small portion of the cost. 2) What corn subsidies? We are talking about Australia. I am no expert in Australian economics, nor agricultural policy, but my understanding after a bit of searching is that they do not subsidize corn https://farmers.org.au/blog/farm-subsidies-in-australia-the-facts/ https://farmers.org.au/blog/farm-subsidies-in-australia-the-... You could argue that the US subsidy is effecting Australia through the global market. However, to the extent that this is relevent, Australia'a recourse would be a tarif on such products entering the market; at which point you might as well tax that which you want to discourage. 3) The problem is not high fructose corn syrup. It is sugar water. Granted, the exact composition of the sugar does have some effect. For a given amount of sugar, excess free fructose is probably worse for you than roughly equal proportions of fructose and glucose. Having said that, fructose tastes sweater for a given amount of sugar. So I'm not sure how it plays out in general. Having said that, according to the FDA, HFCS is either 42% or 55% fructose, which is lower than I would expect. (Actually. HFCS-42 sounds like low fructose. Most natural food has a 50-50 split.). https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/high-fructose-corn-syrup-questions-and-answers https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/high-fruct... Having said that, I did find fairly consistent reporting that sodas are closer to 60% fructose. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900714001920 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089990071...

Covzire 3y ago

I had to cut out all corn syrup due to a freak corn allergy that went from a nuisance to all over hives in early 2021. What surprised me most is that my cravings for sugary snacks/drinks is now virtually zero.