10 ms·

I am surprised by how many commenters seem to be anti-scientific comments or crypto-creationist arguments. This is one study covering a form of life that was l

I am surprised by how many commenters seem to be anti-scientific comments or crypto-creationist arguments. This is one study covering a form of life that was largely replaced during the Cambrian explosion, and took place right after massive glaciation , while the environment was very different to today, or even the Cambrian epoch. The main point of the study is that Oxygen levels may have been lower than thought, which isn't "a problem for science" because "science" isn't even sure if the many fossils from that period were animals (and would require higher oxygen levels). And for people here who didn't read the article: this isn't about the origins of _cellular_ life, or even multicellular life. Multicellular life had been around for tens of millions of years. And life itself had been around for billions. This study asks "are we wrong about how much O2 COMPLEX life requires?" And we may be, Because the ediacaran had different life forms than we have now after the Cambrian explosion.

skrebbel 3y ago
Which commenters are you referring to? You piqued my interest but nobody said stuff like “a problem for science” as far as I can tell. EDIT: this wasnt meant as a jab. I’m not well read in this topic so it’s hard for me to detect the “crypto creationists”.
- gilleain 3y ago
  Likely 'ezion' below, given various references to 'information' which is often a focus of Intelligent Design advocates. Also it's an odd coincidence, but there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezion-Geber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezion-Geber - a city only mentioned in the Bible...
  - lkj24ltkj 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - gilleain 3y ago
      What?
  - icouldntresist 3y ago
    I've been noticing a lot of Christians on HN lately. I'm not saying it's a coordinated effort, but I've seen more in the past 2 weeks than I've seen in the past decade.
    - eindiran 3y ago
      If you've had an account for a decade, why are you using one that is 13 days old (ie the past two weeks)?
      - icouldntresist 3y ago
        I usually lurk, then make an account with a random password if the urge to comment comes upon me. I'll use the account until I clear my cookies and repeat the whole process. Part of this is to dodge textual analysis by ML, part of it is because I don't like feeling too attached.
    - sdflhasjd 3y ago
      IMO, there's been a bit of a tonal shift on HN since the last reddit "crisis". Possibly related.
      - ilinx 3y ago
        I came here from that event, but I’m your stereotypical left-wing atheist redditor. I guess the site is pretty heavily sectioned off, but I assumed that was the bulk of us. Editing to add: this site has been so much better for my mental health. Still plenty of bad news about the environment and large corporations, etc. but I focus less on it, and much more on topics that rekindle my passion for science and technology.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Which commenters are you referring to? Not OP, but this chap [1] retraces the early stages of Kant’s thoughts on mathematics [2]. (The commenter concludes it’s all made up because it’s difficult to think about. Fortunately, Kant went further, though he, too, ultimately deus ex machina’d the ending.) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36863039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36863039 [2] https://www.jstor.org/stable/2184079 https://www.jstor.org/stable/2184079
  - skrebbel 3y ago
    Ok fair, but I’m pretty sure that it was posted after the one I replied to.
swayvil 3y ago
HN isn't as convention-bound as we thought. I call it a good sign.
- EnergyAmy 3y ago
  Not really a good sign. There's legitimate arguments to have, and then there's creationism, 5g causes covid, q-anon, etc that lower the quality of discussion because the people posting about that aren't actually interested in discussion.
  - swayvil 3y ago
    But perspectives really do vary. And the popular epistemology is trash. And I think that we can afford to tolerate the independently minded.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > the popular epistemology is trash Math is immaterial so science is fake isn’t a novel perspective [1], it’s literally 17th-century material and a symptom of America’s lack of philosophical education. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36863039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36863039
      - deadbeeves 3y ago
        Is it? I think it's a symptom of lack of science and math education. No one who understands both of them would think that either is proof that the other one is "fake".
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > I think it's a symptom of lack of science and math education It's that, too.
    - EnergyAmy 3y ago
      Independently minded is great. Refusing to accept reality isn't something that's conducive to an interesting discussion, and I'm happy to have that filtered out.
jmull 3y ago
> I am surprised by how many commenters seem to be anti-scientific comments or crypto-creationist arguments. You must have a hair-trigger definition of anti-scientific cryptocreationist because I don't see it. IMO, drawing narrow boundaries around how scientific questions can be discussed is rather anti-scientific, since a search for the truth can't presuppose that truth.
- EnergyAmy 3y ago
  Nah, you get used to spotting people sealioning and JAQing off. In this thread, ezion is likely a creationist of some sort and is asking either bad faith or ignorant questions. I recognize where those questions are coming from, having grown up religious. It's great to ask questions about evolution if you're a creationist and you're trying to learn. It gets tiring to recognize that someone is looking to do a gotcha and ignore the explanation of why it's not a gotcha.
  - jmull 3y ago
    So there's one, probably. Where are the "many" mentioned above?
    - EnergyAmy 3y ago
      You're misquoting the OP, "surprised at how many" can simply mean any existing at all, depending on one's expectations. More to the point though, this isn't "drawing narrow boundaries around how scientific questions can be discussed" or anything of the sort. It's recognizing some of the comments for what they are: bad faith attempts at pushing a religious agenda.
      - jmull 3y ago
        I accurately quoted the OP, which you must be able to see for yourself. If OP meant "that one guy" instead of "many", they could always edit/reply to clarify. For my part, I can only respond to the ideas actually expressed.
akasakahakada 3y ago
Combined with this anti science astrology megathread created yesterday, I mean I am not surprised. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36840674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36840674

skrebbel 3y ago

Which commenters are you referring to? You piqued my interest but nobody said stuff like “a problem for science” as far as I can tell. EDIT: this wasnt meant as a jab. I’m not well read in this topic so it’s hard for me to detect the “crypto creationists”.

gilleain 3y ago
Likely 'ezion' below, given various references to 'information' which is often a focus of Intelligent Design advocates. Also it's an odd coincidence, but there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezion-Geber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezion-Geber - a city only mentioned in the Bible...
- lkj24ltkj 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - gilleain 3y ago
    What?
- icouldntresist 3y ago
  I've been noticing a lot of Christians on HN lately. I'm not saying it's a coordinated effort, but I've seen more in the past 2 weeks than I've seen in the past decade.
  - eindiran 3y ago
    If you've had an account for a decade, why are you using one that is 13 days old (ie the past two weeks)?
    - icouldntresist 3y ago
      I usually lurk, then make an account with a random password if the urge to comment comes upon me. I'll use the account until I clear my cookies and repeat the whole process. Part of this is to dodge textual analysis by ML, part of it is because I don't like feeling too attached.
  - sdflhasjd 3y ago
    IMO, there's been a bit of a tonal shift on HN since the last reddit "crisis". Possibly related.
    - ilinx 3y ago
      I came here from that event, but I’m your stereotypical left-wing atheist redditor. I guess the site is pretty heavily sectioned off, but I assumed that was the bulk of us. Editing to add: this site has been so much better for my mental health. Still plenty of bad news about the environment and large corporations, etc. but I focus less on it, and much more on topics that rekindle my passion for science and technology.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Which commenters are you referring to? Not OP, but this chap [1] retraces the early stages of Kant’s thoughts on mathematics [2]. (The commenter concludes it’s all made up because it’s difficult to think about. Fortunately, Kant went further, though he, too, ultimately deus ex machina’d the ending.) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36863039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36863039 [2] https://www.jstor.org/stable/2184079 https://www.jstor.org/stable/2184079
- skrebbel 3y ago
  Ok fair, but I’m pretty sure that it was posted after the one I replied to.

swayvil 3y ago

HN isn't as convention-bound as we thought. I call it a good sign.

EnergyAmy 3y ago
Not really a good sign. There's legitimate arguments to have, and then there's creationism, 5g causes covid, q-anon, etc that lower the quality of discussion because the people posting about that aren't actually interested in discussion.
- swayvil 3y ago
  But perspectives really do vary. And the popular epistemology is trash. And I think that we can afford to tolerate the independently minded.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > the popular epistemology is trash Math is immaterial so science is fake isn’t a novel perspective [1], it’s literally 17th-century material and a symptom of America’s lack of philosophical education. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36863039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36863039
    - deadbeeves 3y ago
      Is it? I think it's a symptom of lack of science and math education. No one who understands both of them would think that either is proof that the other one is "fake".
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > I think it's a symptom of lack of science and math education It's that, too.
  - EnergyAmy 3y ago
    Independently minded is great. Refusing to accept reality isn't something that's conducive to an interesting discussion, and I'm happy to have that filtered out.

jmull 3y ago

> I am surprised by how many commenters seem to be anti-scientific comments or crypto-creationist arguments. You must have a hair-trigger definition of anti-scientific cryptocreationist because I don't see it. IMO, drawing narrow boundaries around how scientific questions can be discussed is rather anti-scientific, since a search for the truth can't presuppose that truth.

EnergyAmy 3y ago
Nah, you get used to spotting people sealioning and JAQing off. In this thread, ezion is likely a creationist of some sort and is asking either bad faith or ignorant questions. I recognize where those questions are coming from, having grown up religious. It's great to ask questions about evolution if you're a creationist and you're trying to learn. It gets tiring to recognize that someone is looking to do a gotcha and ignore the explanation of why it's not a gotcha.
- jmull 3y ago
  So there's one, probably. Where are the "many" mentioned above?
  - EnergyAmy 3y ago
    You're misquoting the OP, "surprised at how many" can simply mean any existing at all, depending on one's expectations. More to the point though, this isn't "drawing narrow boundaries around how scientific questions can be discussed" or anything of the sort. It's recognizing some of the comments for what they are: bad faith attempts at pushing a religious agenda.
    - jmull 3y ago
      I accurately quoted the OP, which you must be able to see for yourself. If OP meant "that one guy" instead of "many", they could always edit/reply to clarify. For my part, I can only respond to the ideas actually expressed.

akasakahakada 3y ago

Combined with this anti science astrology megathread created yesterday, I mean I am not surprised. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36840674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36840674