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What greatly fascinates me is that apparently no one in the advertising industry looks at all the effort that goes into subverting their rather invasive trackin

What greatly fascinates me is that apparently no one in the advertising industry looks at all the effort that goes into subverting their rather invasive tracking and comes to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe, they've turned the tracking dials just a tad to far to the right. There seems to be zero self-reflection from the advertising industry. They'll try to find ways around these new measures in Safari, rather than wonder why the hell someone is going to great lengths to prevent their tracking. You see this on places like LinkedIn as well. People in the ad business have zero reflections on why companies like Apple do this or why the EU is trying to regulate their industry. It's always whining about how their right to do business is infringed. The entire online ad business just seems to be completely morally bankrupt.

doe88 3y ago
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
notaustinpowers 3y ago
That revenue chart always has to go up and to the right! /s I work in SEO so I work with advertisers quite a bit, and they absolutely do not care about privacy. I had one who thought that when a user clicks on our site from Google that we can grab their email since "they're logged into their Google account anyway, why not just get their email so we can do some email marketing?" When I said we can't do that, he thought it was a bug, not a privacy feature. If they could install cameras in your home, they would, and they have.
azinman2 3y ago
What are you expecting to happen, exactly?
- mrweasel 3y ago
  Assuming that people are generally as good as I chose to believe I expect the advertising industry to realize that they are in the wrong and revert to content based advertising. Realistically I expect that they'll find a way around the link tracking protection and not give a shit. It's just that I fail to see how a group of people can be so insensitive, so fixated on profit that they ignore everything related to moral. How can an entire industry be so detached from everything from any concept of right or wrong.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lancesells 3y ago
I think you're right but it's not advertisers doing any of this. It's the ad networks (Google, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon) who are the ones who've implemented all of these things. The ad business is a shady one but the ones to blame are the ad tech companies. Google, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. are the onces who should be called out and not the more generic advertising industry.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Isn't Apple also an ad tech company? Do they not maintain lists of their users and sell ads based on that information?
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    The distinction I believe is between selling ads on your own properties based on what people do on those same properties, and selling ads on other properties and/or basing it on tracked behavior on other properties. I'd they distinction matters or not is up to everyone to device.
  - musictubes 3y ago
    No to the first and kind of for the second. Apple doesn’t stoop to the levels of actual ad tech companies as far as tracking and linking data sets. They do sell ads but they are really limited. The only place I think they use customer info for ads is in their News app. App Store ads are search and possibly location based IIRC. In any case, the info used for the ads is fairly generic and they do not have access to the level of info that the actual ad tech companies use. Apple does not know which articles you read, your location, your web browsing, search terms, etc. while using the News app.
- mrweasel 3y ago
  The advertising industry is in some sense dead. Only SEO, tracking, and clicking around in the GUIs provided by the ad networks remains. I don't think there are many true advertising agents out there anymore, nor are their work valued. What I mean are people who you can come to, who will help you locate your audience and buy ads on the right billboard, website, TV shows and magazines. I also believe that where all the hostility comes from. Many of the online advertising people know full well that they're not really good at advertising, they just know how to navigate Google Adwords and their clients don't.
GeekyBear 3y ago
> There seems to be zero self-reflection from the advertising industry. Back in the 90's, I can remember seeing a blog post from an advertiser trying to warn his compatriots that pop up ads and obnoxious animated gifs were counterproductive, but they did not get any traction.
- icouldntresist 3y ago
  Funny how we're coming back around to pop-ups, except they're called "modals" now. I had to use a browser without ublock a little while back, and I honestly don't know how people use the web anymore if they don't have an ad blocker. The ads are literally trying to prevent you from accessing the content for as long as possible so you spend a few more seconds staring at their garbage.
xnx 3y ago
The premise of advertising is attention theft for influence. If it improves their metrics, and is not illegal, it is not part of their consideration.
m463 3y ago
> The entire online ad business just seems to be completely morally bankrupt. I believe the only way to solve this is through laws and regulation. The law should lay out what society thinks is proper human conduct.

doe88 3y ago

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

notaustinpowers 3y ago

That revenue chart always has to go up and to the right! /s I work in SEO so I work with advertisers quite a bit, and they absolutely do not care about privacy. I had one who thought that when a user clicks on our site from Google that we can grab their email since "they're logged into their Google account anyway, why not just get their email so we can do some email marketing?" When I said we can't do that, he thought it was a bug, not a privacy feature. If they could install cameras in your home, they would, and they have.

azinman2 3y ago

What are you expecting to happen, exactly?

mrweasel 3y ago
Assuming that people are generally as good as I chose to believe I expect the advertising industry to realize that they are in the wrong and revert to content based advertising. Realistically I expect that they'll find a way around the link tracking protection and not give a shit. It's just that I fail to see how a group of people can be so insensitive, so fixated on profit that they ignore everything related to moral. How can an entire industry be so detached from everything from any concept of right or wrong.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

lancesells 3y ago

I think you're right but it's not advertisers doing any of this. It's the ad networks (Google, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon) who are the ones who've implemented all of these things. The ad business is a shady one but the ones to blame are the ad tech companies. Google, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. are the onces who should be called out and not the more generic advertising industry.

smoldesu 3y ago
Isn't Apple also an ad tech company? Do they not maintain lists of their users and sell ads based on that information?
- kalleboo 3y ago
  The distinction I believe is between selling ads on your own properties based on what people do on those same properties, and selling ads on other properties and/or basing it on tracked behavior on other properties. I'd they distinction matters or not is up to everyone to device.
- musictubes 3y ago
  No to the first and kind of for the second. Apple doesn’t stoop to the levels of actual ad tech companies as far as tracking and linking data sets. They do sell ads but they are really limited. The only place I think they use customer info for ads is in their News app. App Store ads are search and possibly location based IIRC. In any case, the info used for the ads is fairly generic and they do not have access to the level of info that the actual ad tech companies use. Apple does not know which articles you read, your location, your web browsing, search terms, etc. while using the News app.
mrweasel 3y ago
The advertising industry is in some sense dead. Only SEO, tracking, and clicking around in the GUIs provided by the ad networks remains. I don't think there are many true advertising agents out there anymore, nor are their work valued. What I mean are people who you can come to, who will help you locate your audience and buy ads on the right billboard, website, TV shows and magazines. I also believe that where all the hostility comes from. Many of the online advertising people know full well that they're not really good at advertising, they just know how to navigate Google Adwords and their clients don't.

GeekyBear 3y ago

> There seems to be zero self-reflection from the advertising industry. Back in the 90's, I can remember seeing a blog post from an advertiser trying to warn his compatriots that pop up ads and obnoxious animated gifs were counterproductive, but they did not get any traction.

icouldntresist 3y ago
Funny how we're coming back around to pop-ups, except they're called "modals" now. I had to use a browser without ublock a little while back, and I honestly don't know how people use the web anymore if they don't have an ad blocker. The ads are literally trying to prevent you from accessing the content for as long as possible so you spend a few more seconds staring at their garbage.

xnx 3y ago

The premise of advertising is attention theft for influence. If it improves their metrics, and is not illegal, it is not part of their consideration.

m463 3y ago

> The entire online ad business just seems to be completely morally bankrupt. I believe the only way to solve this is through laws and regulation. The law should lay out what society thinks is proper human conduct.