4 ms·

> We don’t need to deindustrialise. Hell, we don’t even need to make our lives that much worse. Did you know half of all human emissions since 1750% were releas

> We don’t need to deindustrialise. Hell, we don’t even need to make our lives that much worse. Did you know half of all human emissions since 1750% were released in the last 30 years? Even going back to 60s levels would do us well. There were 3 billion people in the world in 1960, now we are 8 billion. What about standards of living on the planet in the 60s? Not just the US and some parts of Europe. How will this be spread evenly on the planet? Do we ask China and India to get back to 60s levels? Do we ask Africa to not make any steps towards industrialization? Does US get back to lower levels than 60s so that emerging nations are on an equal step? > Moving back to simple foods instead of ultra processing. Why do I pay almost double for 'bio' foodstuff? Why do people today choose to buy ultra processed instead of simple foods? How do we feed 10 billion mouths in the future without processing? There's a reason we have an abundance of cheap nutrients. > Embracing nuclear power. This is innovation, which was my initial point. > Driving less and flying less. Who decides how much we can drive, and fly? Can I go visit my grand-dad in the countryside? Can Bill Gates go to the climate conference on the other side of the world to scold us? > Because climate change is an existential human challenge, we all need to pitch in. We all need to pitch in with innovative solutions or with votes for politicians that push for innovative solutions, not by closing our AC and voting for degrowth. > All better options than sticking our heads in the sand and hoping some country geo engineers the earth in the future. I'm pushing for actively trying to develop new technologies to mitigate the strategy and you are fighting against the viewpoint that we should put our heads in the sand and wait for a solution... I think this thread has run its course.

myshpa 3y ago
> There were 3 billion people in the world in 1960, now we are 8 billion. And some of them consume very little, and a western minority consumes much more than in 1960. https://futureearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/great_accel-12graph-SE.png https://futureearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/great_acc... > Why do I pay almost double for 'bio' foodstuff? Why do people today choose to buy ultra processed instead of simple foods Why is healthy food so expensive in America? Blame the Farm Bill that Congress always renews to make burgers cheaper than salad https://fortune.com/2023/07/21/why-healthy-food-so-expensive-in-america-blame-farm-bill-congress-always-renews-make-burgers-cheaper-salad-gene-baur/ https://fortune.com/2023/07/21/why-healthy-food-so-expensive... The 2023 Farm Bill is projected to spend $700 billion over the next five years, with powerful industry lobbyists directing funds to enrich themselves at the expense of agricultural communities, human health, animal welfare, and environmental sustainability. Most Americans have never heard of this massive omnibus bill, which Congress reauthorizes every five or so years, yet it impacts us every day. It shapes our food system–from subsidizing factory farms to funding food and nutrition programs, and it is why burgers are artificially cheap and salads cost more than they should. > with votes for politicians that push for innovative solutions Where did that got us in the last 50 years? Still business as usual. > actively trying to develop new technologies to mitigate the strategy You have one of the 4 classic viewpoints, pretty understandable, but not really realistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPb_0JZ6-Rc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPb_0JZ6-Rc
simmerup 3y ago
> What about standards of living on the planet in the 60s? Not just the US and some parts of Europe. How will this be spread evenly on the planet? Do we ask China and India to get back to 60s levels? Do we ask Africa to not make any steps towards industrialization? Does US get back to lower levels than 60s so that emerging nations are on an equal step? Our technology is a hell of a lot more efficient nowadays so hopefully these the answers to these questions will be uncomfortable rather than unbearable. > Why do people today choose to buy ultra processed instead of simple foods? Advertising. UPF allows companies to add value to food by making it more addictive/less filling/etc. See the obesity epidemic. Whole foods take less fossil fuel to create -- less fossil fuel to process, less to transport, etc. They're not even that much more expensive. > Who decides how much we can drive, and fly? Can I go visit my grand-dad in the countryside? Can Bill Gates go to the climate conference on the other side of the world to scold us? The expense of how much fuel costs. The social stigma of driving a gas guzzling truck. > I'm pushing for actively trying to develop new technologies to mitigate the strategy and you are fighting against the viewpoint that we should put our heads in the sand and wait for a solution... I think this thread has run its course. It's sad that you don't see what you're doing for what it is. You started this thread by effectively saying you have A/C so technology will save us. What happens when heatwaves disable the electric system? When we have power outages due to climate changed caused storms? Will technology save us then? My whole point is you are being too blase about the existential threat we face. You're not even a minority viewpoint. I hope we don't all come to regret this attitude.

myshpa 3y ago

> There were 3 billion people in the world in 1960, now we are 8 billion. And some of them consume very little, and a western minority consumes much more than in 1960. https://futureearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/great_accel-12graph-SE.png https://futureearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/great_acc... > Why do I pay almost double for 'bio' foodstuff? Why do people today choose to buy ultra processed instead of simple foods Why is healthy food so expensive in America? Blame the Farm Bill that Congress always renews to make burgers cheaper than salad https://fortune.com/2023/07/21/why-healthy-food-so-expensive-in-america-blame-farm-bill-congress-always-renews-make-burgers-cheaper-salad-gene-baur/ https://fortune.com/2023/07/21/why-healthy-food-so-expensive... The 2023 Farm Bill is projected to spend $700 billion over the next five years, with powerful industry lobbyists directing funds to enrich themselves at the expense of agricultural communities, human health, animal welfare, and environmental sustainability. Most Americans have never heard of this massive omnibus bill, which Congress reauthorizes every five or so years, yet it impacts us every day. It shapes our food system–from subsidizing factory farms to funding food and nutrition programs, and it is why burgers are artificially cheap and salads cost more than they should. > with votes for politicians that push for innovative solutions Where did that got us in the last 50 years? Still business as usual. > actively trying to develop new technologies to mitigate the strategy You have one of the 4 classic viewpoints, pretty understandable, but not really realistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPb_0JZ6-Rc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPb_0JZ6-Rc

simmerup 3y ago

> What about standards of living on the planet in the 60s? Not just the US and some parts of Europe. How will this be spread evenly on the planet? Do we ask China and India to get back to 60s levels? Do we ask Africa to not make any steps towards industrialization? Does US get back to lower levels than 60s so that emerging nations are on an equal step? Our technology is a hell of a lot more efficient nowadays so hopefully these the answers to these questions will be uncomfortable rather than unbearable. > Why do people today choose to buy ultra processed instead of simple foods? Advertising. UPF allows companies to add value to food by making it more addictive/less filling/etc. See the obesity epidemic. Whole foods take less fossil fuel to create -- less fossil fuel to process, less to transport, etc. They're not even that much more expensive. > Who decides how much we can drive, and fly? Can I go visit my grand-dad in the countryside? Can Bill Gates go to the climate conference on the other side of the world to scold us? The expense of how much fuel costs. The social stigma of driving a gas guzzling truck. > I'm pushing for actively trying to develop new technologies to mitigate the strategy and you are fighting against the viewpoint that we should put our heads in the sand and wait for a solution... I think this thread has run its course. It's sad that you don't see what you're doing for what it is. You started this thread by effectively saying you have A/C so technology will save us. What happens when heatwaves disable the electric system? When we have power outages due to climate changed caused storms? Will technology save us then? My whole point is you are being too blase about the existential threat we face. You're not even a minority viewpoint. I hope we don't all come to regret this attitude.