5 ms·

Is Microsoft's trademark for "X" or for their specific 'design' of "X"?

Retric 3y ago
Trademark are there to reduce confusion in the marketplace so it’s not about the look of X alone but also the products involved. Acura’s A logo is very distinctive but Audi couldn’t just swap their logo an A in a circle using a different font and be ok. They are both car companies so having different A logos would be confusing. Where the specific design of the logo is critical is for shirts etc. If you’re selling clothing with other people’s logos that’s a problem, but a distinctive X design is going to be fine.
- InitialLastName 3y ago
  This is (to my understanding) the difference between a character mark and a design mark. The Acura logo is a design mark. Acura don't, AFAIK (but I haven't searched because searching the USPTO for "A" sounds like hell) have a character mark on the letter A for use in cars. Consider the counterexample in the same industry: Honda and Hyundai both have H in a frame as a logo, and I have no knowledge of a trademark dispute between the two. The X trademark in question appears to be a Service Mark[0], meaning it is a name to represent a service (in this case some kind of social media chat service). My understanding is that the trademark applies to competing services regardless of the artwork or logo, so the social media chat service formerly known as Twitter may have trouble avoiding a collision with it if they want to rename themselves X. [0] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=76041368&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=76041368&caseSearchType=U...
  - Retric 3y ago
    Yes, though my point about the circle should have been more clear. I think Audi could be fine with an A inside of an triangle because it would be plenty distinctive. Similarly the Honda and Hyundai logos use very different frames rather than the common circle which makes them far easier to distinguish than different fonts inside a circle. Namely a box with rounded corners vs an oval. Honda’s H also floats in the frame where Hyundai connects to the oval etc. The point of a logo is to be distinctive and they are.
    - playingalong 3y ago
      Anecdotally I have heard people confusing these two brands - e.g. seeing a Hyundai and calling it a Honda.
      - Retric 3y ago
        That’s hardly limited to Hyundai and Honda.
turtledragonfly 3y ago
Microsoft's trademark is for just the letter "X", not the specific design. This is extra-confusing on the USPTO site[1] because it says "Standard Character Claim: No" (which usually means not text), but it also says "Mark Drawing Type: 1 - TYPESET WORD(S) /LETTER(S) /NUMBER(S)". And that last part is merely the old way of saying it is Standard Character Claim (that's the newer terminology). See their documentation[2] (page 7); the terminology changed in 2003. Some more info here: https://trademarkgarden.com/2018/03/09/amazon-and-you/ https://trademarkgarden.com/2018/03/09/amazon-and-you/ So my understanding (not a lawyer) is that Microsoft's "X" is indeed generic text, though still limited to the specific goods/services listed in the application. [1] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US... [2] https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/products/applications-documentation.pdf https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/products/applicati...

Trademark are there to reduce confusion in the marketplace so it’s not about the look of X alone but also the products involved. Acura’s A logo is very distinctive but Audi couldn’t just swap their logo an A in a circle using a different font and be ok. They are both car companies so having different A logos would be confusing. Where the specific design of the logo is critical is for shirts etc. If you’re selling clothing with other people’s logos that’s a problem, but a distinctive X design is going to be fine.

InitialLastName 3y ago
This is (to my understanding) the difference between a character mark and a design mark. The Acura logo is a design mark. Acura don't, AFAIK (but I haven't searched because searching the USPTO for "A" sounds like hell) have a character mark on the letter A for use in cars. Consider the counterexample in the same industry: Honda and Hyundai both have H in a frame as a logo, and I have no knowledge of a trademark dispute between the two. The X trademark in question appears to be a Service Mark[0], meaning it is a name to represent a service (in this case some kind of social media chat service). My understanding is that the trademark applies to competing services regardless of the artwork or logo, so the social media chat service formerly known as Twitter may have trouble avoiding a collision with it if they want to rename themselves X. [0] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=76041368&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=76041368&caseSearchType=U...
- Retric 3y ago
  Yes, though my point about the circle should have been more clear. I think Audi could be fine with an A inside of an triangle because it would be plenty distinctive. Similarly the Honda and Hyundai logos use very different frames rather than the common circle which makes them far easier to distinguish than different fonts inside a circle. Namely a box with rounded corners vs an oval. Honda’s H also floats in the frame where Hyundai connects to the oval etc. The point of a logo is to be distinctive and they are.
  - playingalong 3y ago
    Anecdotally I have heard people confusing these two brands - e.g. seeing a Hyundai and calling it a Honda.
    - Retric 3y ago
      That’s hardly limited to Hyundai and Honda.

turtledragonfly 3y ago

Microsoft's trademark is for just the letter "X", not the specific design. This is extra-confusing on the USPTO site[1] because it says "Standard Character Claim: No" (which usually means not text), but it also says "Mark Drawing Type: 1 - TYPESET WORD(S) /LETTER(S) /NUMBER(S)". And that last part is merely the old way of saying it is Standard Character Claim (that's the newer terminology). See their documentation[2] (page 7); the terminology changed in 2003. Some more info here: https://trademarkgarden.com/2018/03/09/amazon-and-you/ https://trademarkgarden.com/2018/03/09/amazon-and-you/ So my understanding (not a lawyer) is that Microsoft's "X" is indeed generic text, though still limited to the specific goods/services listed in the application. [1] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US... [2] https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/products/applications-documentation.pdf https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/products/applicati...