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> In many cases zero more plants need to be produced to raise cattle ... Meat does not grow from co2 alone. > slaughtering systems have been continuously deve

by myshpa 3y ago

> In many cases zero more plants need to be produced to raise cattle ... Meat does not grow from co2 alone. > slaughtering systems have been continuously developed to alleviate that as much as possible See for yourself how much is possible. https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch > my calories from plants alone We already get 82% of calories and 63% of proteins from plants. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use https://ourworldindata.org/land-use > I'd be broke A vegan diet was found to have the lowest average cost per person for a healthy diet across all countries globally -- The State of Food Security and Nutrition in the World 2020 | FAO, IFAD, UNICEF, WFP and WHO https://preview.redd.it/ml4ynrjcm34b1.png?width=968&auto=webp&s=011bde8ad89e13a812130b90bbb2d0d3a9fee7e1 https://preview.redd.it/ml4ynrjcm34b1.png?width=968&auto=web... > and rather bored It's possible you never had a good vegan meal. Among 9,179 meat burgers competing for first place at Peru’s recent BurgerFest 2022 edition, the plant-based burger, Not A Common Burger, made with fresh pulses, was crowned as the public’s favorite. https://vegconomist.com/company-news/meet-not-a-common-burger-perus-burgerfest-2022-winner/ https://vegconomist.com/company-news/meet-not-a-common-burge... Almost any recipe can be made vegan. Fat, salt, acid, temperature, spices. World is full of good vegan foods. See Indian, Ethiopean or Mexican cuisine for example. Many foods in Greece/Italy are vegan.

brailsafe 3y ago
> Almost any recipe can be made vegan. Fat, salt, acid, temperature, spices. World is full of good vegan foods. See Indian, Ethiopean or Mexican cuisine for example. Many foods in Greece/Italy are vegan. Those are all lovely, but what about chicken breast?
- myshpa 3y ago
  That's easy, pretty much anything tastes like chicken ;) Try seitan with chicken spices.
  - dgroshev 3y ago
    I often enjoy seitan and soy, but pretending they're the same is disingenuous. Moreover, it's pointless — meat production is by itself carbon neutral, and there is no fundamental reason meat can't be enjoyed from time to time. It might need to get more expensive to better reflect its true cost, true, but it's different from "everyone needs to be vegan forever to save the planet". After all, spices are just as "unnecessary" as meat, yet we grow them because they are nice to have.
    - brailsafe 3y ago
      When I was growing up, we had cows simply grazing wherever there was grass. We harvested wood for other reasons, because they weren't our livestock, and that provided for a few small clearings. They kept the grass short, and while they made the ground quite bumpy, they also fertilized the land which grew like crazy after my grandfather told the owner to get the cows out. Now, I don't eat meat excessively, and do enjoy it more than ever, but it's definitely more expensive and involved to even temporarily switch. $6 for two sizable frozen chicken breasts, or $6 for a few tomatoes and peppers, $6 for 2lb of carrots. Usually it's a combination of a few things that have varying levels of environmental cost, like nuts, fruits, vegetables, beef, chicken, some grains, which seems sensible to me. If that cost dramatically increases, which it probably will, I'll adapt, but I doubt it will get to the point where I'll be considering no meat at all, because of the sheer amount of other stuff I'd need to eat and how expensive it can be. I'm not terribly interested in what global averages seem to be according to some website, it's not how I make decisions about how to allocate my small amount of food budget.
      - myshpa 3y ago
        > When I was growing up How many people were on this rock then? Was it anywhere near 8 billion people as it is now, or was it a fraction of the number? > it's definitely more expensive and involved to even temporarily switch The price of meat and healthy whole foods in the US is heavily distorted by lobying [0] and by subsidies ($38 billion each year to subsidize the meat and dairy industries, but only 0.04 percent of that (i.e., $17 million) each year to subsidize fruits and vegetables) [1]. [0] https://fortune.com/2023/07/21/why-healthy-food-so-expensive-in-america-blame-farm-bill-congress-always-renews-make-burgers-cheaper-salad-gene-baur/ https://fortune.com/2023/07/21/why-healthy-food-so-expensive... [1] https://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/CopyofFINALSavingThePlanetSustainableMeatAlternatives.pdf https://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/CopyofFINALSavi...

by myshpa 3y ago

brailsafe 3y ago

> Almost any recipe can be made vegan. Fat, salt, acid, temperature, spices. World is full of good vegan foods. See Indian, Ethiopean or Mexican cuisine for example. Many foods in Greece/Italy are vegan. Those are all lovely, but what about chicken breast?

myshpa 3y ago
That's easy, pretty much anything tastes like chicken ;) Try seitan with chicken spices.
- dgroshev 3y ago
  I often enjoy seitan and soy, but pretending they're the same is disingenuous. Moreover, it's pointless — meat production is by itself carbon neutral, and there is no fundamental reason meat can't be enjoyed from time to time. It might need to get more expensive to better reflect its true cost, true, but it's different from "everyone needs to be vegan forever to save the planet". After all, spices are just as "unnecessary" as meat, yet we grow them because they are nice to have.
  - brailsafe 3y ago
    When I was growing up, we had cows simply grazing wherever there was grass. We harvested wood for other reasons, because they weren't our livestock, and that provided for a few small clearings. They kept the grass short, and while they made the ground quite bumpy, they also fertilized the land which grew like crazy after my grandfather told the owner to get the cows out. Now, I don't eat meat excessively, and do enjoy it more than ever, but it's definitely more expensive and involved to even temporarily switch. $6 for two sizable frozen chicken breasts, or $6 for a few tomatoes and peppers, $6 for 2lb of carrots. Usually it's a combination of a few things that have varying levels of environmental cost, like nuts, fruits, vegetables, beef, chicken, some grains, which seems sensible to me. If that cost dramatically increases, which it probably will, I'll adapt, but I doubt it will get to the point where I'll be considering no meat at all, because of the sheer amount of other stuff I'd need to eat and how expensive it can be. I'm not terribly interested in what global averages seem to be according to some website, it's not how I make decisions about how to allocate my small amount of food budget.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > When I was growing up How many people were on this rock then? Was it anywhere near 8 billion people as it is now, or was it a fraction of the number? > it's definitely more expensive and involved to even temporarily switch The price of meat and healthy whole foods in the US is heavily distorted by lobying [0] and by subsidies ($38 billion each year to subsidize the meat and dairy industries, but only 0.04 percent of that (i.e., $17 million) each year to subsidize fruits and vegetables) [1]. [0] https://fortune.com/2023/07/21/why-healthy-food-so-expensive-in-america-blame-farm-bill-congress-always-renews-make-burgers-cheaper-salad-gene-baur/ https://fortune.com/2023/07/21/why-healthy-food-so-expensive... [1] https://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/CopyofFINALSavingThePlanetSustainableMeatAlternatives.pdf https://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/CopyofFINALSavi...