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ah, the primordial incompatibility of cultures. Let's not forget that in india it is not considered wrong to "game" the system, even it is considered unethical

ah, the primordial incompatibility of cultures. Let's not forget that in india it is not considered wrong to "game" the system, even it is considered unethical by western standards. It is not a coincidence all of these tech support scammers are based in india. this brings forth an interesting topic, how do we reconcile cultural differences in online platforms ? Nobody can deny they exist, and they create clashes like the aforementioned one.

DanHulton 3y ago
I don't think you do. Your platform should have an explicit and expected code of conduct set up in advance, and people should be held to it. If they cannot, they aren't allowed to use the platform. When it becomes apparent that there are cultural norms that make it difficult or impossible for people from those cultures to use your platform, you re-examine your code of conduct, of course, to make sure you're not unduly excluding people. If you are, you amend the code, you change the platform in ways necessary to support them, and everyone tends to end up better off as a result. But some cultural norms will be antithetical to the point of the platform, like in this case: SO cannot function properly when people attempt to game the system. In those cases, the CoC remains, and people from that culture will either have to adapt to the platform or find (or make) a similar one that works for them. The alternative, as we see here, is that your platform degrades until it's not useful to _anyone,_ this "problem culture" included.
- Ketan-fullstack 3y ago
  Agree with the first part of your comment. gaming the system is prevalent but not considered ethical in india. HRs won’t allow such candidates for example. So there is no question of amending CoC to make room. There is a difference between something being prevalent and something being culturally accepted. The solution lies in naming and shaming. Making it clear that such people aren’t wanted on these platforms. But i don’t think anyone should chalk this up to “cultural norms” That’s just being unfair to those of us who are just as fed up with this mindset.
  - DanHulton 3y ago
    I mean, neither do I, but I'm giving the poster above me the benefit of the doubt, and also kinda recognizing that -- even though I can't think of a concrete example right now -- there's almost certainly a situation where there IS a cultural norm that is otherwise acceptable, but antithetical to a particular platform, so the question is still valid, IMO.
joenot443 3y ago
My mind went to the same place. Do people not remember the "Hacktoberfest" fiasco? People were encouraged to make a PR on public repos in exchange for a free t-shirt, and _obviously_ this led to repos being overrun with spam PRs changing a single line comment. https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/01/digitalocean_hacktoberfest_pull_request_spam https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/01/digitalocean_hacktobe... There were dozens of videos like this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xjmCsdgUhE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xjmCsdgUhE with loads of people replying and thanking the author, excited for their t-shirt, not really knowing they're _creating unnecessary work_ for actual engineers with limited time. Incentivized systems like this can work okay in small, self-selected communities, but as soon as it's open up to the entire world, the implied courtesy of said system vanishes, and immediately we're pandering to the lowest common denominator. This thread digs in a bit. https://twitter.com/Kautukkundan/status/1311717814768594944/ https://twitter.com/Kautukkundan/status/1311717814768594944/

DanHulton 3y ago

I don't think you do. Your platform should have an explicit and expected code of conduct set up in advance, and people should be held to it. If they cannot, they aren't allowed to use the platform. When it becomes apparent that there are cultural norms that make it difficult or impossible for people from those cultures to use your platform, you re-examine your code of conduct, of course, to make sure you're not unduly excluding people. If you are, you amend the code, you change the platform in ways necessary to support them, and everyone tends to end up better off as a result. But some cultural norms will be antithetical to the point of the platform, like in this case: SO cannot function properly when people attempt to game the system. In those cases, the CoC remains, and people from that culture will either have to adapt to the platform or find (or make) a similar one that works for them. The alternative, as we see here, is that your platform degrades until it's not useful to _anyone,_ this "problem culture" included.

Ketan-fullstack 3y ago
Agree with the first part of your comment. gaming the system is prevalent but not considered ethical in india. HRs won’t allow such candidates for example. So there is no question of amending CoC to make room. There is a difference between something being prevalent and something being culturally accepted. The solution lies in naming and shaming. Making it clear that such people aren’t wanted on these platforms. But i don’t think anyone should chalk this up to “cultural norms” That’s just being unfair to those of us who are just as fed up with this mindset.
- DanHulton 3y ago
  I mean, neither do I, but I'm giving the poster above me the benefit of the doubt, and also kinda recognizing that -- even though I can't think of a concrete example right now -- there's almost certainly a situation where there IS a cultural norm that is otherwise acceptable, but antithetical to a particular platform, so the question is still valid, IMO.

joenot443 3y ago

My mind went to the same place. Do people not remember the "Hacktoberfest" fiasco? People were encouraged to make a PR on public repos in exchange for a free t-shirt, and _obviously_ this led to repos being overrun with spam PRs changing a single line comment. https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/01/digitalocean_hacktoberfest_pull_request_spam https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/01/digitalocean_hacktobe... There were dozens of videos like this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xjmCsdgUhE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xjmCsdgUhE with loads of people replying and thanking the author, excited for their t-shirt, not really knowing they're _creating unnecessary work_ for actual engineers with limited time. Incentivized systems like this can work okay in small, self-selected communities, but as soon as it's open up to the entire world, the implied courtesy of said system vanishes, and immediately we're pandering to the lowest common denominator. This thread digs in a bit. https://twitter.com/Kautukkundan/status/1311717814768594944/ https://twitter.com/Kautukkundan/status/1311717814768594944/