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I'm real uncomfortable with comparing kinetic weaponry to communications encryption. These aren't even remotely similar things in damage scope. The argument in

by XorNot 3y ago

I'm real uncomfortable with comparing kinetic weaponry to communications encryption. These aren't even remotely similar things in damage scope. The argument in favor of private communications is in fact predicated on this: no one can actually cause damage just by communicating. Damage might happen as a result of it, but there is no information so dangerous that the transmission of it must be known up front, and should be pre-emptively scanned for and alerted on. There is always a chain of additional activities and actions which is required for harm to eventuate.

jvanderbot 3y ago
Not only only that, there is something so intrinsically human about communication, and something so vulnerable about having every word archived. How does it go? "Give me a sentence from and honest man and I'll find a way to hang him?" or something. To be clear, I 100% believe that self defense is also intrinsic to being a mobile animal, and everyone has the right to be their own first line of self defense. But most people go their entire lives without needing to defend their self, but nobody goes more than a few days without needing to communicate with someone, often somewhat intimately. The amount of words someone generates is staggering, and if archived arbitrarily, can almost certainly be used against them.
- XorNot 3y ago
  Eh, I've never much cared for that quote or the common interpretation of it. People take it as though the problem is the surveillance. But it's the last part which tells you what's up: "I'll find a way to hang him". The speaker is telling you what they're going to do - everything else is a formality. Your problem began well before they had a sentence, and wouldn't end if they didn't have one.
  - jvanderbot 3y ago
    A malicious, unlawful actor should be denied all methods of acting out their purpose, as long as it doesn't hurt lawful actors more than they are willing to accept.
- vdqtp3 3y ago
  > so intrinsically human about communication I think it's interesting that all of these discussions imply that there is nothing essential about the right to self defense [even from governments] using the most effective tools possible.
kelnos 3y ago
> I'm real uncomfortable with comparing kinetic weaponry to communications encryption. Same. The purpose of kinetic weaponry -- even when used in self defense -- is to injure and kill. Communications encryption has so many varied uses, there's just no comparison.
snerbles 3y ago
> I'm real uncomfortable with comparing kinetic weaponry to communications encryption. These aren't even remotely similar things in damage scope. Those in power and their sycophants fear both of them enough to launch entire propaganda campaigns on their own citizens to restrict them.

by XorNot 3y ago

jvanderbot 3y ago

Not only only that, there is something so intrinsically human about communication, and something so vulnerable about having every word archived. How does it go? "Give me a sentence from and honest man and I'll find a way to hang him?" or something. To be clear, I 100% believe that self defense is also intrinsic to being a mobile animal, and everyone has the right to be their own first line of self defense. But most people go their entire lives without needing to defend their self, but nobody goes more than a few days without needing to communicate with someone, often somewhat intimately. The amount of words someone generates is staggering, and if archived arbitrarily, can almost certainly be used against them.

XorNot 3y ago
Eh, I've never much cared for that quote or the common interpretation of it. People take it as though the problem is the surveillance. But it's the last part which tells you what's up: "I'll find a way to hang him". The speaker is telling you what they're going to do - everything else is a formality. Your problem began well before they had a sentence, and wouldn't end if they didn't have one.
- jvanderbot 3y ago
  A malicious, unlawful actor should be denied all methods of acting out their purpose, as long as it doesn't hurt lawful actors more than they are willing to accept.
vdqtp3 3y ago
> so intrinsically human about communication I think it's interesting that all of these discussions imply that there is nothing essential about the right to self defense [even from governments] using the most effective tools possible.

kelnos 3y ago

> I'm real uncomfortable with comparing kinetic weaponry to communications encryption. Same. The purpose of kinetic weaponry -- even when used in self defense -- is to injure and kill. Communications encryption has so many varied uses, there's just no comparison.

snerbles 3y ago

> I'm real uncomfortable with comparing kinetic weaponry to communications encryption. These aren't even remotely similar things in damage scope. Those in power and their sycophants fear both of them enough to launch entire propaganda campaigns on their own citizens to restrict them.