5 ms·

> I have yet to find another open source project that has the same community involvement as vscode Emacs. I mention this specifically because it's clear that V

> I have yet to find another open source project that has the same community involvement as vscode Emacs. I mention this specifically because it's clear that VS Code is heavily inspired by Emacs in all the ways that you describe.

Barrin92 3y ago
VsCode is basically Javascript-Emacs but people really react with something between bother and disgust to that comparison. The extensibility on top of a very generic core has even encouraged a lot of comparable extensions. Like Roam/Org clones that basically function like org-mode or bespoke git clients. VsCode is very quickly becoming a platform for software.
- hollerith 3y ago
  That might be true, but I found it easy 30 years ago to learn how to modify Emacs, but spent 100s of hours trying to learn how to exert a similar level of control over VSCode, and never saw any significant signs I was getting close to my goal. Profession web developers might have a different experience.
  - bitwize 3y ago
    I agree with you that extending Visual Studio Code is a quite different experience, more akin to pulling teeth or writing COM controls in C++ in the 90s than to extending Emacs, which can be done live in your editing session as you work. But. Seventy-five percent of developers use Visual Studio Code, with most of the rest being vim, neovim, or JetBrains holdouts. All of the brainpower for extensions and tooling integration is going into Visual Studio Code, not Emacs. Soon, Emacs will simply be left behind.
    - sdesol 3y ago
      I'm definitely one of those vim holdouts, even though vscode vim support is pretty good. If vscode ever supports ctrl-z to jump into a full terminal and fg to jump back into editor mode, then I'll definitely convert.
      - orangea 3y ago
        VS Code certainly can be configured to have a keyboard shortcut to switch to a terminal and another shortcut to switch back and/or close the terminal. In fact probably every popular editor with a built-in terminal can do that.
    - nequo 3y ago
      Emacs doesn’t have to be the most popular editor in order to find contributors. It is under active development and I don’t see signs that it would be left behind anytime soon.
    - wiseowise 3y ago
      > Seventy-five percent of developers use Visual Studio Code 75% of what developers? Hobbyists? Students? Professionals? Because last one is the only relevant metric as all editors strive towards it.
      - bitwize 3y ago
        Professionals, from Stack Overflow's user surveys.
        wiseowise 3y ago
        That’s 75% using VSCode, not exclusively using VSCode. Combining all IntelliJ forks will yield at least half of the market and given how heavyweight they are, it’s reasonable to assume that VSCode is used as a “dumber”, “faster” for quick edits while actual work is done in “real” IDEs (that’s what I and my colleagues do anyway, I personally know at least 7 people with setup like that).
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      > pulling teeth or writing COM controls in C++ in the 90s You can have the same experience today, if you feel like authoring COM in C++/WinRT for WinUI 3.0. Quite modern. /s
    - patmorgan23 3y ago
      While having the largest community is certainly a benefit to an IDE, it's not a death blow to the others. JetBrains is a paid editor so they have more resources per-user than an free editor. Also many tools are relatively easy to integrate or follow a standard (such as the language server protocol or dev containers) so all editors can benefit from those ecosystems. It's not a walled garden like the mobile OSs work in building up tooling for one editor can transfer over to others.
- zelphirkalt 3y ago
  Superficially VSCode might share some similarities, but when you look at how Emacs works and how concepts differ, you very quickly will find, that VSCode is very far from being JS-Emacs. The whole focus of concepts is completely different. From buffers, to tabs, to keyboard focus, to plain text focus, to extensions/package and to inspectability.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  From an XEmacs user during its glory days, where VSCode wins over plain old Emacs, is not only the JavaScript (more appealing to the masses than Elisp), it embraces graphics mode, and since the Browser is the new X Windows terminal, the experience feels much better. However due to Electron, I feel we need to update the Emacs jokes to something more akin to Electron.

Barrin92 3y ago

VsCode is basically Javascript-Emacs but people really react with something between bother and disgust to that comparison. The extensibility on top of a very generic core has even encouraged a lot of comparable extensions. Like Roam/Org clones that basically function like org-mode or bespoke git clients. VsCode is very quickly becoming a platform for software.

hollerith 3y ago
That might be true, but I found it easy 30 years ago to learn how to modify Emacs, but spent 100s of hours trying to learn how to exert a similar level of control over VSCode, and never saw any significant signs I was getting close to my goal. Profession web developers might have a different experience.
- bitwize 3y ago
  I agree with you that extending Visual Studio Code is a quite different experience, more akin to pulling teeth or writing COM controls in C++ in the 90s than to extending Emacs, which can be done live in your editing session as you work. But. Seventy-five percent of developers use Visual Studio Code, with most of the rest being vim, neovim, or JetBrains holdouts. All of the brainpower for extensions and tooling integration is going into Visual Studio Code, not Emacs. Soon, Emacs will simply be left behind.
  - sdesol 3y ago
    I'm definitely one of those vim holdouts, even though vscode vim support is pretty good. If vscode ever supports ctrl-z to jump into a full terminal and fg to jump back into editor mode, then I'll definitely convert.
    - orangea 3y ago
      VS Code certainly can be configured to have a keyboard shortcut to switch to a terminal and another shortcut to switch back and/or close the terminal. In fact probably every popular editor with a built-in terminal can do that.
  - nequo 3y ago
    Emacs doesn’t have to be the most popular editor in order to find contributors. It is under active development and I don’t see signs that it would be left behind anytime soon.
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    > Seventy-five percent of developers use Visual Studio Code 75% of what developers? Hobbyists? Students? Professionals? Because last one is the only relevant metric as all editors strive towards it.
    - bitwize 3y ago
      Professionals, from Stack Overflow's user surveys.
      - wiseowise 3y ago
        That’s 75% using VSCode, not exclusively using VSCode. Combining all IntelliJ forks will yield at least half of the market and given how heavyweight they are, it’s reasonable to assume that VSCode is used as a “dumber”, “faster” for quick edits while actual work is done in “real” IDEs (that’s what I and my colleagues do anyway, I personally know at least 7 people with setup like that).
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    > pulling teeth or writing COM controls in C++ in the 90s You can have the same experience today, if you feel like authoring COM in C++/WinRT for WinUI 3.0. Quite modern. /s
  - patmorgan23 3y ago
    While having the largest community is certainly a benefit to an IDE, it's not a death blow to the others. JetBrains is a paid editor so they have more resources per-user than an free editor. Also many tools are relatively easy to integrate or follow a standard (such as the language server protocol or dev containers) so all editors can benefit from those ecosystems. It's not a walled garden like the mobile OSs work in building up tooling for one editor can transfer over to others.
zelphirkalt 3y ago
Superficially VSCode might share some similarities, but when you look at how Emacs works and how concepts differ, you very quickly will find, that VSCode is very far from being JS-Emacs. The whole focus of concepts is completely different. From buffers, to tabs, to keyboard focus, to plain text focus, to extensions/package and to inspectability.
pjmlp 3y ago
From an XEmacs user during its glory days, where VSCode wins over plain old Emacs, is not only the JavaScript (more appealing to the masses than Elisp), it embraces graphics mode, and since the Browser is the new X Windows terminal, the experience feels much better. However due to Electron, I feel we need to update the Emacs jokes to something more akin to Electron.