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It’s entirely possible to do this digitally and have it working seamlessly. In Denmark we have a thing called “MitID” (MyID) which is basically a government lo

by Tehnix 3y ago

It’s entirely possible to do this digitally and have it working seamlessly. In Denmark we have a thing called “MitID” (MyID) which is basically a government login and which you can use to sign and also login to all kinds of things that need to confirm your identity (e.g. Phone subscription, taxes, 3DS verification for Credit Card transactions, etc). It’s essentially 2FA, works by the site sending a confirmation to an app on your phone that is behind PIN code. The analog version is a paper slip with 100 lookup codes.

kredd 3y ago
That's the thing I don't understand about people who live in the USA and their absolute hatred towards a National ID system. It would be a political nightmare for them to even suggest anything like that. Even their "new" FedNow service is being as governmental overreach for "reasons".
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  Japan’s My Number is also overreach surveillance that many are protesting. Don’t pretend it’s an American thing
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- whaleofatw2022 3y ago
  Most non-it people I know who are opposed to FedNow are the kinds of folks who get a lot of 'gifts' that they conveniently get around reporting, alongside a CPA they always owe favors to. I am against government overreach yet these people really seem to want to change my mind.
smaudet 3y ago
And then...your govt login is stolen and you are back to square one with "identity theft". National ID systems are such nonsense it is appalling there are people stupid enough to think this is a Good Thing. Easy is NOT always better. The best things in life are definitely not free.
- Tehnix 3y ago
  The bar to stealing it is way different now though. You would have to steal a username + phone + PIN code for phone + PIN code for MitID app. If that happens, then it would also be trivial to unlink the app from that phone. At no point in time would you be unaware of the theft here. Contrast this to what happens in the US often: your personal info is leaked from the plethora of places it’s kept. Someone can now in perpetuity exploit your identity, or at the very least for a long time until you find out randomly. Which system sounds better to you? I sure know that I’d prefer the first one. I’d welcome any actual arguments against it, but you’ve not really presented any at all so far.
  - smaudet 3y ago
    "You would have to steal a username + phone + PIN code for phone + PIN code for MitID app." And when your phone is hacked then all three are up for grabs? "Contrast this to what happens in the US often: your personal info is leaked from the plethora of places it’s kept." And yes, totally never is your govt info leaked from the plethora of places it is kept. /s The problem is not having govt information, the problem is having it kept on phones or entered on devices at all. "I’d welcome any actual arguments against it," See the above. I dislike the automated exfiltration of my identifying information, and then being saddled with the "responsibility" for it. The solution is not to make it even more automated, but to generally never to accept any credential except as a revokable guarantee - doing business as a large corp you should accept the risk of fraud, and presume your clientelle are not who they say they are.
    - tjoff 3y ago
      > And when your phone is hacked then all three are up for grabs? No.
- DropInIn 3y ago
  I got locked out of mine and that's a freaking nightmare to deal with. Several trips to a government office, had to get a new set of ID, and wait weeks, all while there was important communications waiting for me on one of the dozens of subordinate government sites which were time sensitive but no one could provide me by an alternative method.... I am just waiting to hear the first story of someone going to prison because they couldn't get the message the tax man sent due to the tax man not letting them read the message....

by Tehnix 3y ago

kredd 3y ago

That's the thing I don't understand about people who live in the USA and their absolute hatred towards a National ID system. It would be a political nightmare for them to even suggest anything like that. Even their "new" FedNow service is being as governmental overreach for "reasons".

wahnfrieden 3y ago
Japan’s My Number is also overreach surveillance that many are protesting. Don’t pretend it’s an American thing
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
whaleofatw2022 3y ago
Most non-it people I know who are opposed to FedNow are the kinds of folks who get a lot of 'gifts' that they conveniently get around reporting, alongside a CPA they always owe favors to. I am against government overreach yet these people really seem to want to change my mind.

smaudet 3y ago

And then...your govt login is stolen and you are back to square one with "identity theft". National ID systems are such nonsense it is appalling there are people stupid enough to think this is a Good Thing. Easy is NOT always better. The best things in life are definitely not free.

Tehnix 3y ago
The bar to stealing it is way different now though. You would have to steal a username + phone + PIN code for phone + PIN code for MitID app. If that happens, then it would also be trivial to unlink the app from that phone. At no point in time would you be unaware of the theft here. Contrast this to what happens in the US often: your personal info is leaked from the plethora of places it’s kept. Someone can now in perpetuity exploit your identity, or at the very least for a long time until you find out randomly. Which system sounds better to you? I sure know that I’d prefer the first one. I’d welcome any actual arguments against it, but you’ve not really presented any at all so far.
- smaudet 3y ago
  "You would have to steal a username + phone + PIN code for phone + PIN code for MitID app." And when your phone is hacked then all three are up for grabs? "Contrast this to what happens in the US often: your personal info is leaked from the plethora of places it’s kept." And yes, totally never is your govt info leaked from the plethora of places it is kept. /s The problem is not having govt information, the problem is having it kept on phones or entered on devices at all. "I’d welcome any actual arguments against it," See the above. I dislike the automated exfiltration of my identifying information, and then being saddled with the "responsibility" for it. The solution is not to make it even more automated, but to generally never to accept any credential except as a revokable guarantee - doing business as a large corp you should accept the risk of fraud, and presume your clientelle are not who they say they are.
  - tjoff 3y ago
    > And when your phone is hacked then all three are up for grabs? No.
DropInIn 3y ago
I got locked out of mine and that's a freaking nightmare to deal with. Several trips to a government office, had to get a new set of ID, and wait weeks, all while there was important communications waiting for me on one of the dozens of subordinate government sites which were time sensitive but no one could provide me by an alternative method.... I am just waiting to hear the first story of someone going to prison because they couldn't get the message the tax man sent due to the tax man not letting them read the message....