4 ms·

Per-capita data for global problems are useless to look at because the planet doesn't care where the emissions come from.

p1necone 3y ago
Id argue that's exactly why we should look at per capita data, otherwise people and companies from smaller countries look at the data and throw their hands up in the air and do nothing because (some big country) dwarfs the numbers from where they are. A factory pumping out N units of c02 should be trying/incentivised to cut c02 emissions regardless of whether they're in the United States or in Niue. Per capita emissions data gives us a much better idea of where those factories might be than data that doesn't take population into account.
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  Or.. country could just ignore the data. I think the only solution is for the rich country to pay the poor countries to decrease their usage proportional to the expected decrease. Not arguing if it is fair or not, but likely the only thing that could work.
- evandale 3y ago
  I want to make this perfectly clear: The Canadian people are not responsible for the per-capita emissions of the country; we have no control over it and there's nothing citizens can do to reduce our footprint. Canada's high emissions per-capita are a combination of its disproportionately large industry, 2nd largest landmass in the world, a large part of the country being a frozen wasteland, and its miniscule population. Per-capita is useless in practice because a factory pumping out 1000000 units in Canada will look bad per-capita. A factory pumping 1000000 units in China looks great per-capita. It's not a fair comparison at all and if Canada was 0.0 emissions per-capita it would make 0 difference in the world because China outputs the equivalent to a Canada in a short time frame. Canada's energy is the cleanest in the entire world by a massive margin. Ontario is 100% non-emitting energy. Canada never gets any credit for any of this, ever, while European countries still buying natural gas from Russia are lauded as trailblazers in clean energy. Canada does far far more than its fair share for the rest of the world and it doesn't deserve to be singled out due to an idiotic statistic that is only useful for comparing local phenomenons.
  - eulgro 3y ago
    You're mixing energy and electricity, not the same thing. There's still plenty of oil being burnt by transport among others Canada also has the disporportionate levels of consumption typical to the West, no praise there.
  - Affric 3y ago
    > A factory pumping 1000000 units in China looks great per-capita. A country with a relatively small population and little heavy industry looks great in absolute figures. > we have no control over it and there's nothing citizens can do to reduce our footprint. Didn't know Canada had entirely electrified transport. > Canada does far far more than its fair share The fair share is net negative carbon emissions for every country and an increasing amount of wilderness across all biomes. A group of polities which are the greatest environmental vandals in all human history is an incredibly low bar against which to measure achievement. Decarbonising the economy requires investment. Canada is one of the richest nations in the world.
  - yongjik 3y ago
    > Per-capita is useless in practice because a factory pumping out 1000000 units in Canada will look bad per-capita. > A factory pumping 1000000 units in China looks great per-capita. A factory pumping out 1000000 units, each earning $1k, will net each Canadian $26. The same factory in China will net each Chinese citizen 71 cents. You think you found the unfairness of the comparison, but in essence, you're just saying "But Canada is rich and China is poor! That's why Canadians get to pollute more than Chinese per capita!" Your argument isn't going to persuade many people.
  - sanxiyn 3y ago
    > We have no control over it and there's nothing citizens can do to reduce our footprint. That's just not true. You can buy cars with better fuel efficiency. (Just say no to SUV.) You can buy electric cars. You can avoid air travel. You can vote for better public transportation policy, so more people take trains not cars. These are big items and they matter.

p1necone 3y ago

Id argue that's exactly why we should look at per capita data, otherwise people and companies from smaller countries look at the data and throw their hands up in the air and do nothing because (some big country) dwarfs the numbers from where they are. A factory pumping out N units of c02 should be trying/incentivised to cut c02 emissions regardless of whether they're in the United States or in Niue. Per capita emissions data gives us a much better idea of where those factories might be than data that doesn't take population into account.

YetAnotherNick 3y ago
Or.. country could just ignore the data. I think the only solution is for the rich country to pay the poor countries to decrease their usage proportional to the expected decrease. Not arguing if it is fair or not, but likely the only thing that could work.
evandale 3y ago
I want to make this perfectly clear: The Canadian people are not responsible for the per-capita emissions of the country; we have no control over it and there's nothing citizens can do to reduce our footprint. Canada's high emissions per-capita are a combination of its disproportionately large industry, 2nd largest landmass in the world, a large part of the country being a frozen wasteland, and its miniscule population. Per-capita is useless in practice because a factory pumping out 1000000 units in Canada will look bad per-capita. A factory pumping 1000000 units in China looks great per-capita. It's not a fair comparison at all and if Canada was 0.0 emissions per-capita it would make 0 difference in the world because China outputs the equivalent to a Canada in a short time frame. Canada's energy is the cleanest in the entire world by a massive margin. Ontario is 100% non-emitting energy. Canada never gets any credit for any of this, ever, while European countries still buying natural gas from Russia are lauded as trailblazers in clean energy. Canada does far far more than its fair share for the rest of the world and it doesn't deserve to be singled out due to an idiotic statistic that is only useful for comparing local phenomenons.
- eulgro 3y ago
  You're mixing energy and electricity, not the same thing. There's still plenty of oil being burnt by transport among others Canada also has the disporportionate levels of consumption typical to the West, no praise there.
- Affric 3y ago
  > A factory pumping 1000000 units in China looks great per-capita. A country with a relatively small population and little heavy industry looks great in absolute figures. > we have no control over it and there's nothing citizens can do to reduce our footprint. Didn't know Canada had entirely electrified transport. > Canada does far far more than its fair share The fair share is net negative carbon emissions for every country and an increasing amount of wilderness across all biomes. A group of polities which are the greatest environmental vandals in all human history is an incredibly low bar against which to measure achievement. Decarbonising the economy requires investment. Canada is one of the richest nations in the world.
- yongjik 3y ago
  > Per-capita is useless in practice because a factory pumping out 1000000 units in Canada will look bad per-capita. > A factory pumping 1000000 units in China looks great per-capita. A factory pumping out 1000000 units, each earning $1k, will net each Canadian $26. The same factory in China will net each Chinese citizen 71 cents. You think you found the unfairness of the comparison, but in essence, you're just saying "But Canada is rich and China is poor! That's why Canadians get to pollute more than Chinese per capita!" Your argument isn't going to persuade many people.
- sanxiyn 3y ago
  > We have no control over it and there's nothing citizens can do to reduce our footprint. That's just not true. You can buy cars with better fuel efficiency. (Just say no to SUV.) You can buy electric cars. You can avoid air travel. You can vote for better public transportation policy, so more people take trains not cars. These are big items and they matter.