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Where is $592 coming from? That doesn't sound right to me for Premium, esp. since the Lifetime option doesn't even have a trial phase. Which plan, billing frequ

Where is $592 coming from? That doesn't sound right to me for Premium, esp. since the Lifetime option doesn't even have a trial phase. Which plan, billing frequency, and currency are you looking at? On the trial topic, I'm using Paddle for subscriptions/billing, and when you add a free trial stage to a product in Paddle, they do charge after the trial ends. For anyone who forgets to cancel in time, I'm happy to issue a refund. I also offer general discounts and extended trials on request (per the pricing page). But if there's still a concern, the easiest way to try out the basic features without worrying about any of this is to just hop into the sandbox, which you don't even need to create an account for.

throwanem 3y ago
"Pro" has a 7-day trial and this below the CTA: > Billed annually for $540 + tax. The dollar amount doesn't quite line up, but it's close. Unless there's very clear confirmation before pulling the trigger on the trial, I would agree this feels on the shady side - at that price point after a 7-day trial, and without a lot of messaging at every stage, I would expect to see an elevated rate of chargebacks. If it helps, this is via the "Upgrade" option when the app is trying to recover a sandbox session from localStorage; I haven't navigated to the pricing page any other way.
- scubakid 3y ago
  The checkout experience in PL is just standard Paddle checkout, so I imagine the feedback about charging after the free trial applies to everyone who uses Paddle? I tend to think the Paddle checkout flow is clear enough on how their free trial period works, and I don't recall anyone else taking issue with that in the past. But if the sentiment is shared that Paddle's checkout copy needs improvement, I can certainly pass that along to the Paddle team. Was the OP here talking about Premium or Pro though? b/c I'm still wondering where that $592 came from.
  - zomgwat 3y ago
    My guess is that the difference is the tax on a annual Pro subscription.
  - resonious 3y ago
    The Paddle modal says "Total after trial $594.00" in its order summary for me. This is Pro (which OP also mentioned in their comment).
    - scubakid 3y ago
      Hmm which OP do you mean? I was referring to karaterobot's original/top-level comment, where afaik they didn't specify. From context though, it sounds to me like maybe they meant to look at the trial for Premium (i.e. personal use) but accidentally started checkout for the Pro version. I wonder if just hopping into the free sandbox might have been a better fit for what they wanted to do. Anyway, if others find Paddle's free trial / checkout copy problematic, or have other changes to recommend, just let me know.
      - resonious 3y ago
        Ah yes it was a different person who pointed out Pro. Dunno what karaterobot clicked but judging by the number it was probably pro. Paddle looks pretty normal to me but I think some people find that norm offensive. "Free trial then we auto charge you" definitely feels a bit dark compared to, say, "Free trial then we put you back on basic". I think that would be good for Paddle to consider.
        scubakid 3y ago
        Yeah I could see that being a nice option to grant the user during checkout. I guess another workaround for now would be to start the trial then cancel right away -- should have the same effect I believe.
      - throwanem 3y ago
        > the trial for Premium (i.e. personal use) but accidentally started checkout for the Pro version It doesn't seem very clear on the pricing page that Pro is for professionals; this is mentioned in the copy, but deemphasized there (smaller, low contrast type between black-on-white title and feature bullets). Until I read the passage I quoted I did not realize there was such a distinction, and it wasn't till I went back and looked hard that I spotted the copy that clarified it. You already have a "For Advisors" page on the site. If Paddle makes it straightforward, perhaps consider listing the Pro plan there and just Basic and Premium on the main plan page, or something like that, and have some sort of secondary CTA (eg "Looking for personal/advisor plans?") on both, to help redirect folks who end up in the wrong place. Or something like that, anyway - I think the root cause here is that you're addressing two separate markets that have separate sets of concerns and cost expectations, but aren't always being intentional and specific about which of those markets you're addressing at any one time. Due to this you're inadvertently violating one market's expectations with another market's offer, in a way that isn't deliberately shady but shares enough commonality with a pattern that is shady that it takes care to distinguish what's actually going on. edit: You might also and more simply consider renaming the "Pro" plan; that word doesn't mean very much these days. If it was called something like "Advisor", I doubt anyone would've turned a hair at the price; a name like that does much more to help me as a potential customer understand whether or not this plan is meant for me.
  - 999900000999 3y ago
    Why does this cost so much and why don't you offer a monthly subscription. If you just add a 10$ a month option most people will just shrug it off even if they never touch the site again. But you start at 108 for the year. That's charge back territory. If I just forget about this after the free trial but see a 108$ mystery charge I'm asking questions.
    - MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
      They do offer a monthly subscription.
      - 999900000999 3y ago
        That should be the default, not over 500$ a year when your trial ends.
        MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
        Have you actually tried the process? Do you know that it defaults to $500 a year, or was that perhaps user error?
        999900000999 3y ago
        Pro defaults to 500$ a year. It should default to monthly IMO. It's more like I'd rather be able to catch a small charge vs having a large surprise
    - gregoryl 3y ago
      Why not more? Is there another product that does this as well, for less?
      - scubakid 3y ago
        Funny enough, "pricing too low" is still a common piece of feedback I get as well. I wonder if the fact that there are now voices on both sides could indicate that it's finally in the right territory. Or perhaps that there should be additional tiers. Just not sure how best to carve up the feature set in that latter case.
  - newswasboring 3y ago
    > The checkout experience in PL is just standard Paddle checkout, so I imagine the feedback about charging after the free trial applies to everyone who uses Paddle? Yup. It's a manipulative dark pattern. It makes the path of least resistance automatic spending of money rather than making a decision.
    - firewolf34 3y ago
      Paddle literally just nabbed me for a $40 subscription for another app just a few days ago. I am attempting to get it cancelled through their support, I never even got an email warning me of it at all. If they don't agree to cancel, considering I haven't even launched said app in months, I will dispute it w/ my CC. Madness.
      - firewolf34 3y ago
        Update: Paddle support got back to me in 24-hours and their emailed link cancelled the payment and put me in touch with an AI that instantly resolved the situation and knew what I was talking about. I was impressed.

throwanem 3y ago

"Pro" has a 7-day trial and this below the CTA: > Billed annually for $540 + tax. The dollar amount doesn't quite line up, but it's close. Unless there's very clear confirmation before pulling the trigger on the trial, I would agree this feels on the shady side - at that price point after a 7-day trial, and without a lot of messaging at every stage, I would expect to see an elevated rate of chargebacks. If it helps, this is via the "Upgrade" option when the app is trying to recover a sandbox session from localStorage; I haven't navigated to the pricing page any other way.

scubakid 3y ago
The checkout experience in PL is just standard Paddle checkout, so I imagine the feedback about charging after the free trial applies to everyone who uses Paddle? I tend to think the Paddle checkout flow is clear enough on how their free trial period works, and I don't recall anyone else taking issue with that in the past. But if the sentiment is shared that Paddle's checkout copy needs improvement, I can certainly pass that along to the Paddle team. Was the OP here talking about Premium or Pro though? b/c I'm still wondering where that $592 came from.
- zomgwat 3y ago
  My guess is that the difference is the tax on a annual Pro subscription.
- resonious 3y ago
  The Paddle modal says "Total after trial $594.00" in its order summary for me. This is Pro (which OP also mentioned in their comment).
  - scubakid 3y ago
    Hmm which OP do you mean? I was referring to karaterobot's original/top-level comment, where afaik they didn't specify. From context though, it sounds to me like maybe they meant to look at the trial for Premium (i.e. personal use) but accidentally started checkout for the Pro version. I wonder if just hopping into the free sandbox might have been a better fit for what they wanted to do. Anyway, if others find Paddle's free trial / checkout copy problematic, or have other changes to recommend, just let me know.
    - resonious 3y ago
      Ah yes it was a different person who pointed out Pro. Dunno what karaterobot clicked but judging by the number it was probably pro. Paddle looks pretty normal to me but I think some people find that norm offensive. "Free trial then we auto charge you" definitely feels a bit dark compared to, say, "Free trial then we put you back on basic". I think that would be good for Paddle to consider.
      - scubakid 3y ago
        Yeah I could see that being a nice option to grant the user during checkout. I guess another workaround for now would be to start the trial then cancel right away -- should have the same effect I believe.
    - throwanem 3y ago
      > the trial for Premium (i.e. personal use) but accidentally started checkout for the Pro version It doesn't seem very clear on the pricing page that Pro is for professionals; this is mentioned in the copy, but deemphasized there (smaller, low contrast type between black-on-white title and feature bullets). Until I read the passage I quoted I did not realize there was such a distinction, and it wasn't till I went back and looked hard that I spotted the copy that clarified it. You already have a "For Advisors" page on the site. If Paddle makes it straightforward, perhaps consider listing the Pro plan there and just Basic and Premium on the main plan page, or something like that, and have some sort of secondary CTA (eg "Looking for personal/advisor plans?") on both, to help redirect folks who end up in the wrong place. Or something like that, anyway - I think the root cause here is that you're addressing two separate markets that have separate sets of concerns and cost expectations, but aren't always being intentional and specific about which of those markets you're addressing at any one time. Due to this you're inadvertently violating one market's expectations with another market's offer, in a way that isn't deliberately shady but shares enough commonality with a pattern that is shady that it takes care to distinguish what's actually going on. edit: You might also and more simply consider renaming the "Pro" plan; that word doesn't mean very much these days. If it was called something like "Advisor", I doubt anyone would've turned a hair at the price; a name like that does much more to help me as a potential customer understand whether or not this plan is meant for me.
- 999900000999 3y ago
  Why does this cost so much and why don't you offer a monthly subscription. If you just add a 10$ a month option most people will just shrug it off even if they never touch the site again. But you start at 108 for the year. That's charge back territory. If I just forget about this after the free trial but see a 108$ mystery charge I'm asking questions.
  - MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
    They do offer a monthly subscription.
    - 999900000999 3y ago
      That should be the default, not over 500$ a year when your trial ends.
      - MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
        Have you actually tried the process? Do you know that it defaults to $500 a year, or was that perhaps user error?
        999900000999 3y ago
        Pro defaults to 500$ a year. It should default to monthly IMO. It's more like I'd rather be able to catch a small charge vs having a large surprise
  - gregoryl 3y ago
    Why not more? Is there another product that does this as well, for less?
    - scubakid 3y ago
      Funny enough, "pricing too low" is still a common piece of feedback I get as well. I wonder if the fact that there are now voices on both sides could indicate that it's finally in the right territory. Or perhaps that there should be additional tiers. Just not sure how best to carve up the feature set in that latter case.
- newswasboring 3y ago
  > The checkout experience in PL is just standard Paddle checkout, so I imagine the feedback about charging after the free trial applies to everyone who uses Paddle? Yup. It's a manipulative dark pattern. It makes the path of least resistance automatic spending of money rather than making a decision.
  - firewolf34 3y ago
    Paddle literally just nabbed me for a $40 subscription for another app just a few days ago. I am attempting to get it cancelled through their support, I never even got an email warning me of it at all. If they don't agree to cancel, considering I haven't even launched said app in months, I will dispute it w/ my CC. Madness.
    - firewolf34 3y ago
      Update: Paddle support got back to me in 24-hours and their emailed link cancelled the payment and put me in touch with an AI that instantly resolved the situation and knew what I was talking about. I was impressed.