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Google seems to be escalating the speed of its efforts to restrict its user base to the completely non-technical, but Apple and Facebook already own that market

Google seems to be escalating the speed of its efforts to restrict its user base to the completely non-technical, but Apple and Facebook already own that market. It also sounds like they're promoting yet another way to make "the internet" slower, more bloated, and have greater impediments to usage.

treyd 3y ago
This proposal only impacts "the web", which has already been going downhill for years now due to unsustainable ad-reliant business models. The internet is fine.
- truevelvet 3y ago
  That distinction made me feel better about the whole thing. Thank you.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > The internet is fine. I wish I could agree. The internet isn't in nearly as bad of shape as the web is, that's true. But it doesn't look nearly as healthy as it used to, as more and more services are moving to the web and abandoning the internet.
- kelnos 3y ago
  For the vast majority of people, the internet is the web, as well as mobile apps. The latter are already out of the control of users. Today, we at least have browsers that we can mostly force to do what we want (like stop downloading and displaying ads), but WEI will end up restricting portions of the web to users running browsers that do what the web servers want, not what their users want. And for most people in the world, that is "the internet".
  - treyd 3y ago
    The distinction is important in my opinion because it means that our technology stack isn't necessarily captured to the root by hostile interests. In these respects, a better world is possible without having to dig everything up and start over, for now.
  - anderspitman 3y ago
    The current browser stack is a lost cause. There's just no way for anyone who cares to compete with Google. But we still have TCP and HTTP. We will rebuild this place.
    - Touche 3y ago
      HTTP is terrible though. It's a big part of the problem with the web.
      - multicast 3y ago
        I'm curious. Could you please elaborate further
- anon25783 3y ago
  While I agree with the other people in this thread pointing out that the web practically is the internet for the average user, I think this is an opportune moment to mention that Gemini exists, free of any kind of mass surveillance or advertising. It's like the web prior to Eternal September. I even have my own Gemini capsule[0] which has a live web mirror[1] statically generated from the former's content. Granted, Gemini is vanishingly obscure and relatively inaccessible compared to the web, but it's still cool that it exists. [0] gemini://hackersphere.space [1] https://hackersphere.space https://hackersphere.space
  - eropple 3y ago
    > free of any kind of mass surveillance or advertising And most of the functionality people want out of the web. It's a neat project, but it's not responsive to the problem at hand. By design. And that's fine. But it remains nonresponsive.
doctor_eval 3y ago
I have never understood why Google has remained the esteemed vendor for a subset of technical users. They lost me more than a decade ago when they hoovered clear text passwords from their wifi scanning and blamed it on a single engineer.
- dumpsterdiver 3y ago
  Are you referring to Google Maps automobiles connecting to open WiFi networks? Because to be fair, those networks were wide open, and they were being advertised. I don't see how advertising an open WiFi network is much different from advertising an open house. In both cases you should expect visitors.
  - weirdkid 3y ago
    Ah yes, the “they were asking for it” defense.
  - NegativeK 3y ago
    An open wifi network is akin to having the shades open or your door unlocked. You can take advantage of it, but almost everyone is going to feel like it's not right unless they have consent. An open house would be akin to have an open wifi network labeled "PleaseUseMe".
    - dumpsterdiver 3y ago
      I disagree. An open WiFi network that is not being advertised would be similar to leaving a door unlocked or the shades open. When that network is actively advertised it ceases to be an open blind, and moves into open house territory.
      - slimsag 3y ago
        So if my front door is open, or my garage door is open, you feel you have the right to enter my home without permission?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

treyd 3y ago

This proposal only impacts "the web", which has already been going downhill for years now due to unsustainable ad-reliant business models. The internet is fine.

truevelvet 3y ago
That distinction made me feel better about the whole thing. Thank you.
JohnFen 3y ago
> The internet is fine. I wish I could agree. The internet isn't in nearly as bad of shape as the web is, that's true. But it doesn't look nearly as healthy as it used to, as more and more services are moving to the web and abandoning the internet.
kelnos 3y ago
For the vast majority of people, the internet is the web, as well as mobile apps. The latter are already out of the control of users. Today, we at least have browsers that we can mostly force to do what we want (like stop downloading and displaying ads), but WEI will end up restricting portions of the web to users running browsers that do what the web servers want, not what their users want. And for most people in the world, that is "the internet".
- treyd 3y ago
  The distinction is important in my opinion because it means that our technology stack isn't necessarily captured to the root by hostile interests. In these respects, a better world is possible without having to dig everything up and start over, for now.
- anderspitman 3y ago
  The current browser stack is a lost cause. There's just no way for anyone who cares to compete with Google. But we still have TCP and HTTP. We will rebuild this place.
  - Touche 3y ago
    HTTP is terrible though. It's a big part of the problem with the web.
    - multicast 3y ago
      I'm curious. Could you please elaborate further
anon25783 3y ago
While I agree with the other people in this thread pointing out that the web practically is the internet for the average user, I think this is an opportune moment to mention that Gemini exists, free of any kind of mass surveillance or advertising. It's like the web prior to Eternal September. I even have my own Gemini capsule[0] which has a live web mirror[1] statically generated from the former's content. Granted, Gemini is vanishingly obscure and relatively inaccessible compared to the web, but it's still cool that it exists. [0] gemini://hackersphere.space [1] https://hackersphere.space https://hackersphere.space
- eropple 3y ago
  > free of any kind of mass surveillance or advertising And most of the functionality people want out of the web. It's a neat project, but it's not responsive to the problem at hand. By design. And that's fine. But it remains nonresponsive.

doctor_eval 3y ago

I have never understood why Google has remained the esteemed vendor for a subset of technical users. They lost me more than a decade ago when they hoovered clear text passwords from their wifi scanning and blamed it on a single engineer.

dumpsterdiver 3y ago
Are you referring to Google Maps automobiles connecting to open WiFi networks? Because to be fair, those networks were wide open, and they were being advertised. I don't see how advertising an open WiFi network is much different from advertising an open house. In both cases you should expect visitors.
- weirdkid 3y ago
  Ah yes, the “they were asking for it” defense.
- NegativeK 3y ago
  An open wifi network is akin to having the shades open or your door unlocked. You can take advantage of it, but almost everyone is going to feel like it's not right unless they have consent. An open house would be akin to have an open wifi network labeled "PleaseUseMe".
  - dumpsterdiver 3y ago
    I disagree. An open WiFi network that is not being advertised would be similar to leaving a door unlocked or the shades open. When that network is actively advertised it ceases to be an open blind, and moves into open house territory.
    - slimsag 3y ago
      So if my front door is open, or my garage door is open, you feel you have the right to enter my home without permission?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]