4 ms·

But stereotype and prejudice don't mean the same thing, even though they're related. Without getting too far into the weeds, stereotypes are (positive or negati

by whakim 3y ago

But stereotype and prejudice don't mean the same thing, even though they're related. Without getting too far into the weeds, stereotypes are (positive or negative) beliefs about characteristics of groups of people, whereas prejudices are internalized negative feelings towards groups of people, often formed on the basis of (usually negative) stereotypes. "what I must like etc [on the basis of star sign]" (quote from OP) is a generalized belief about a characteristic of a group rather than a negative feeling towards a group - a stereotype, not a prejudice. To be clear, I completely agree with the OP in that stereotypes (even positive ones) are harmful in that they don't treat people as individuals. Even if you don't accept this difference between stereotypes and prejudice, however, there's still a big jump to get to racism. I won't attempt (nor do I think I could do justice to) a formal definition of racism, but I think most people would agree that it at least also involves (1) discrimination (individual, structural and/or systemic actions that are based on prejudice); (2) racialization (the social construction of racial groups); and (3) history (racism involves a lot of historical baggage that probably isn't applicable to, say, astrology). So sure, stereotypes aren't totally unrelated to racism - but saying they're "akin" to racism really misses the bigger picture.

wilg 3y ago
A more complex definition of "racism" is unhelpful here. I'm not arguing there aren't additional aspects worthy of discussion. But "racial prejudice" is a perfectly acceptable way to use it, and it is also the dictionary definition. This isn't a teachable moment to explore the nuances of racism, it's simply a metaphor. I think stereotypes are a kind of prejudice, again, using plain definitions. A stereotype is an oversimplified image of a class of people. That's a mechanism by which you might "pre-judge" someone.
- whakim 3y ago
  > "racial prejudice" is a perfectly acceptable way to use it Racial prejudice. Which adds a boatload of social and historical context to "prejudice" alone. Not to mention that no one talks about racial prejudice without (at least) an awareness of the discrimination and oppression that such prejudice often gives rise to. > This isn't a teachable moment to explore the nuances of racism, it's simply a metaphor. "Tell[ing] me what I must like [on the basis of star sign]...is akin to racism" (OP's words) isn't a metaphor. It's simply stating that one thing is analogous to another. I realize this all seems totally pedantic, but making a false equivalence between an astrological stereotype and racism trivializes the experiences of people who are on the receiving end of racial discrimination. > I think stereotypes are a kind of prejudice, again, using plain definitions. If we're simply looking up dictionary definitions, I'm happy to point you to the dictionary-defined distinction between stereotype (beliefs about characteristics of groups)[1] and prejudice (negative feelings towards groups)[2]. That being said, you did just repeat my point that stereotypes often form the basis of prejudices :). [1] https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=prejudice https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=preju... [2] https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=stereotype https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=stere...
  - wilg 3y ago
    Of course mentioning race in the context of prejudice adds context, that's why it's a more interesting analogy. That context might allow you to more intuitively consider the ramifications of what happens when prejudice goes unchecked. Saying something is akin to something else IS a metaphor. Analogy, simile, whatever. It's a kind of metaphor. You've again described an analogy as an equivalence, which it just isn't. If it's not an equivalence, it can't be a false equivalence. I think we can handle analogies. Also, as far as I can tell without a paywall (!?), neither definition you linked to mentions beliefs or feelings so I'm not sure how you're getting that. I don't disagree that stereotypes can cause prejudice, I just don't follow the distinction you're trying to draw between beliefs and feelings or how it makes a difference here. The problem OP was trying to highlight is people making unjustified assumptions about people based on their pre-conceived notions (which are also indefensibly unmoored from reality).

by whakim 3y ago

wilg 3y ago

A more complex definition of "racism" is unhelpful here. I'm not arguing there aren't additional aspects worthy of discussion. But "racial prejudice" is a perfectly acceptable way to use it, and it is also the dictionary definition. This isn't a teachable moment to explore the nuances of racism, it's simply a metaphor. I think stereotypes are a kind of prejudice, again, using plain definitions. A stereotype is an oversimplified image of a class of people. That's a mechanism by which you might "pre-judge" someone.

whakim 3y ago
> "racial prejudice" is a perfectly acceptable way to use it Racial prejudice. Which adds a boatload of social and historical context to "prejudice" alone. Not to mention that no one talks about racial prejudice without (at least) an awareness of the discrimination and oppression that such prejudice often gives rise to. > This isn't a teachable moment to explore the nuances of racism, it's simply a metaphor. "Tell[ing] me what I must like [on the basis of star sign]...is akin to racism" (OP's words) isn't a metaphor. It's simply stating that one thing is analogous to another. I realize this all seems totally pedantic, but making a false equivalence between an astrological stereotype and racism trivializes the experiences of people who are on the receiving end of racial discrimination. > I think stereotypes are a kind of prejudice, again, using plain definitions. If we're simply looking up dictionary definitions, I'm happy to point you to the dictionary-defined distinction between stereotype (beliefs about characteristics of groups)[1] and prejudice (negative feelings towards groups)[2]. That being said, you did just repeat my point that stereotypes often form the basis of prejudices :). [1] https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=prejudice https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=preju... [2] https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=stereotype https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=stere...
- wilg 3y ago
  Of course mentioning race in the context of prejudice adds context, that's why it's a more interesting analogy. That context might allow you to more intuitively consider the ramifications of what happens when prejudice goes unchecked. Saying something is akin to something else IS a metaphor. Analogy, simile, whatever. It's a kind of metaphor. You've again described an analogy as an equivalence, which it just isn't. If it's not an equivalence, it can't be a false equivalence. I think we can handle analogies. Also, as far as I can tell without a paywall (!?), neither definition you linked to mentions beliefs or feelings so I'm not sure how you're getting that. I don't disagree that stereotypes can cause prejudice, I just don't follow the distinction you're trying to draw between beliefs and feelings or how it makes a difference here. The problem OP was trying to highlight is people making unjustified assumptions about people based on their pre-conceived notions (which are also indefensibly unmoored from reality).