4 ms·

I straight use credit cards as insurance, especially against scams. I specifically dont use a debit card at all and dont carry it. I only have it to pull money

I straight use credit cards as insurance, especially against scams. I specifically dont use a debit card at all and dont carry it. I only have it to pull money out and it stays locked in a safe at home. CC's allow me to ensure things like Amazon sellers arent scamming you, or worse, random websites with awful return policies. With a CC merchant that have a motivation to work on your behalf (ie: to get you to pay them for the charges). With a debit card that money is gone and its your responsibility to recoup it or convince your bank to credit you that money back..no thanks.

TheRealPomax 3y ago
Yes, with a debit card in North America that is certainly true. Because banks are shit here.
- gruez 3y ago
  Not really, because most banks have zero liability policies even though the law doesn't mandate it[1]. That said, the susceptibility to fraud is a fundamental problem with debit cards. When the card gets charged, it's your money that's taken out (or at least put on hold). On a credit card, it's the bank's money. That's an important difference, because even if you get reimbursed for it at the end, you're still without money during the time it takes for your bank to reimburse you. With a credit card you have a few weeks from when the statement is issued to pay. [1] https://usa.visa.com/pay-with-visa/visa-chip-technology-consumers/zero-liability-policy.html https://usa.visa.com/pay-with-visa/visa-chip-technology-cons...
  - TheRealPomax 3y ago
    > most banks have zero liability policies even though the law doesn't mandate it how is that "not really"? That's "yeah, because"
    - hunter2_ 3y ago
      Saying "banks are shit here because they have zero liability policies" isn't too sensical. Saying "banks are not really shit here because they have zero liability policies" makes decent sense.
      - TheRealPomax 3y ago
        banks are shit here because they are not required by law to have liability policies. Just because the laws aren't in place doesn't magically make the banks fine, it makes them shit, while being legally compliant.
  - croutonwagon 3y ago
    Thats exactly why we are structured that way. Especially for our primary accounts. Its also why we use 3 banks. So if for some reason 1 bank had some type of incident or the accounts do, we have 2 other options with cash reserves. Though that has not happened to OUR accounts, we have had incidents at our banks (they just didnt affect our account balances)
marssaxman 3y ago
We all have different perceptions of risk, don't we? My approach is the opposite of yours - I carry my debit card everywhere, and use it for every non-cash purchase - because I am far more concerned about the everyday risk of getting into debt by spending more than I can afford than the relatively unlikely prospect of getting scammed. I did have to recoup stolen money once, but this was quick and straightforward since I am a member of a credit union. Leaving my debit card at home would not have helped, since the thief proved to be my ex-girlfriend!
- croutonwagon 3y ago
  We definitely do. And my intent wasnt to proselytize about it. More to just explain the reasoning. I have had fraud due to things outside of my control that took hundreds of hours and months to recover from. Some being from family of all things. But an Ebay/Paypal EFT with a previous bank (Suntrust) causing recurring overdrafts and a LOT of effort to get it to stop caused a lot of the afformentioned structure. We are both fairly stringent on spending, myself having had to crawl out of CC debt, so sticking to budget and keeping spending in check isnt so hard anymore. We definitely still have plenty of other safeguards as well. For example any loan we "reverse engineer" to design it to a specific payment that sets a budget limit. And for things like cars, we keep that loan to no more than $300/month. And once the car is paid off we continue putting that 300/month into a savings account for repairs and/or down payment on the next vehicle when repairs start to exceed the value of the vehicle. We also do the same for the kids college funds etc,.
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  The big difference between the risk profile of a credit card vs a debit card is that if I willingly put myself in debt by spending more than I can afford, that was an action I chose to take. If my card details get stolen and someone racks up a bunch of charges, I had little to no input in that action. At most, I was too trusting with my choice in vendors. I'd rather control things within my control, e.g., my spending, than those outside my control, like thieves and scammers. So I use my credit card everywhere.
Symbiote 3y ago
(Under Danish laws...) I do the opposite: my main debit card is in my wallet, and is used for almost all purchases. Once it's done, I'm holding the groceries and my money is spent — I don't think about it again. The credit card is at home, and also in my password manager. I use it for the riskier purchases, primarily airline tickets from non-EU airlines and small European budget airlines, and expensive concert tickets.
anigbrowl 3y ago
The problem here is the banks not being required to do at least as good a job as the credit card companies (who are often also banks). They punish people who prefer not to use credit.

TheRealPomax 3y ago

Yes, with a debit card in North America that is certainly true. Because banks are shit here.

gruez 3y ago
Not really, because most banks have zero liability policies even though the law doesn't mandate it[1]. That said, the susceptibility to fraud is a fundamental problem with debit cards. When the card gets charged, it's your money that's taken out (or at least put on hold). On a credit card, it's the bank's money. That's an important difference, because even if you get reimbursed for it at the end, you're still without money during the time it takes for your bank to reimburse you. With a credit card you have a few weeks from when the statement is issued to pay. [1] https://usa.visa.com/pay-with-visa/visa-chip-technology-consumers/zero-liability-policy.html https://usa.visa.com/pay-with-visa/visa-chip-technology-cons...
- TheRealPomax 3y ago
  > most banks have zero liability policies even though the law doesn't mandate it how is that "not really"? That's "yeah, because"
  - hunter2_ 3y ago
    Saying "banks are shit here because they have zero liability policies" isn't too sensical. Saying "banks are not really shit here because they have zero liability policies" makes decent sense.
    - TheRealPomax 3y ago
      banks are shit here because they are not required by law to have liability policies. Just because the laws aren't in place doesn't magically make the banks fine, it makes them shit, while being legally compliant.
- croutonwagon 3y ago
  Thats exactly why we are structured that way. Especially for our primary accounts. Its also why we use 3 banks. So if for some reason 1 bank had some type of incident or the accounts do, we have 2 other options with cash reserves. Though that has not happened to OUR accounts, we have had incidents at our banks (they just didnt affect our account balances)

marssaxman 3y ago

We all have different perceptions of risk, don't we? My approach is the opposite of yours - I carry my debit card everywhere, and use it for every non-cash purchase - because I am far more concerned about the everyday risk of getting into debt by spending more than I can afford than the relatively unlikely prospect of getting scammed. I did have to recoup stolen money once, but this was quick and straightforward since I am a member of a credit union. Leaving my debit card at home would not have helped, since the thief proved to be my ex-girlfriend!

croutonwagon 3y ago
We definitely do. And my intent wasnt to proselytize about it. More to just explain the reasoning. I have had fraud due to things outside of my control that took hundreds of hours and months to recover from. Some being from family of all things. But an Ebay/Paypal EFT with a previous bank (Suntrust) causing recurring overdrafts and a LOT of effort to get it to stop caused a lot of the afformentioned structure. We are both fairly stringent on spending, myself having had to crawl out of CC debt, so sticking to budget and keeping spending in check isnt so hard anymore. We definitely still have plenty of other safeguards as well. For example any loan we "reverse engineer" to design it to a specific payment that sets a budget limit. And for things like cars, we keep that loan to no more than $300/month. And once the car is paid off we continue putting that 300/month into a savings account for repairs and/or down payment on the next vehicle when repairs start to exceed the value of the vehicle. We also do the same for the kids college funds etc,.
OkayPhysicist 3y ago
The big difference between the risk profile of a credit card vs a debit card is that if I willingly put myself in debt by spending more than I can afford, that was an action I chose to take. If my card details get stolen and someone racks up a bunch of charges, I had little to no input in that action. At most, I was too trusting with my choice in vendors. I'd rather control things within my control, e.g., my spending, than those outside my control, like thieves and scammers. So I use my credit card everywhere.

Symbiote 3y ago

(Under Danish laws...) I do the opposite: my main debit card is in my wallet, and is used for almost all purchases. Once it's done, I'm holding the groceries and my money is spent — I don't think about it again. The credit card is at home, and also in my password manager. I use it for the riskier purchases, primarily airline tickets from non-EU airlines and small European budget airlines, and expensive concert tickets.

anigbrowl 3y ago

The problem here is the banks not being required to do at least as good a job as the credit card companies (who are often also banks). They punish people who prefer not to use credit.