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I've lived in the USA my whole life, and I still think it's bizarre and ought to be illegal. It's basically a bribe. The worst part is, as long as it is legal,

I've lived in the USA my whole life, and I still think it's bizarre and ought to be illegal. It's basically a bribe. The worst part is, as long as it is legal, it just makes sense use it - because most things are the same price either way, so it's essentially a small discount on everything. So, I simultaneously use it regularly and hope it becomes illegal.

tracker1 3y ago
I definitely favor using CC, and paying off if only for the 2-5% "cash back" program(s). If I pay cash, I'm effectively paying extra, same for debit. It kind of sucks, and definitely should be better managed. Also, if you let the debt accumulate on a CC (very easy to do), then the interest definitely comes out to more than the rewards in that case.
- nfriedly 3y ago
  Oh, yeah, CC companies love it when people carry a balance and pay interest. But they're still making money off of someone like me who pays the full balance off each month, because when they give me 2% back, they're charging the merchant 5% or more. It's kind of a heads-they-win, tails-you-loose situation.
  - CuriouslyC 3y ago
    5% processing fees are predatory, and the only people that pay them are mom and pop shops that don't have leverage. Larger merchants are going to be closer to ~1.5%.
    - tracker1 3y ago
      Well, I know I'm getting 5% back on Amazon purchases, so there's some there, there so to speak.
sanderjd 3y ago
Without some other changes to the system, like direct consumer banking and fraud protection through the fed, making points illegal would just be a big windfall for credit card companies, as they would remain the most convenient way to pay for things, while being able to keep like 2% more of what they charge merchants.
- callalex 3y ago
  This is already a completely solved problem in most of the world. They simply cap the fees card companies can collect from merchants by law.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    That sounds unlikely to me to be "solved" rather than "a different local maximum". I'm very skeptical that any governments know the single perfect solution to the formula of the precise level of merchant fees that is the best possible solution.
    - CuriouslyC 3y ago
      If you cap fees, all that will happen is high risk businesses won't be able to accept cards and the processors will find ways to nickel and dime (+pos fee, paper billing fee, customer service fee, etc). It's still a better world though.
      - sanderjd 3y ago
        Maybe? For some people? I dunno, that sounds like it would mostly be worse for me, to have fewer points and fewer places that take cards. But even if it's better, it definitely doesn't seem "solved" to me... I think "solved" would be more like, fraud protection without credit, competition among card processing network driving merchant costs to access a network very low, people almost entirely using convenient fraud-protected debit cards like cash.
- nfriedly 3y ago

tracker1 3y ago

I definitely favor using CC, and paying off if only for the 2-5% "cash back" program(s). If I pay cash, I'm effectively paying extra, same for debit. It kind of sucks, and definitely should be better managed. Also, if you let the debt accumulate on a CC (very easy to do), then the interest definitely comes out to more than the rewards in that case.

nfriedly 3y ago
Oh, yeah, CC companies love it when people carry a balance and pay interest. But they're still making money off of someone like me who pays the full balance off each month, because when they give me 2% back, they're charging the merchant 5% or more. It's kind of a heads-they-win, tails-you-loose situation.
- CuriouslyC 3y ago
  5% processing fees are predatory, and the only people that pay them are mom and pop shops that don't have leverage. Larger merchants are going to be closer to ~1.5%.
  - tracker1 3y ago
    Well, I know I'm getting 5% back on Amazon purchases, so there's some there, there so to speak.

sanderjd 3y ago

Without some other changes to the system, like direct consumer banking and fraud protection through the fed, making points illegal would just be a big windfall for credit card companies, as they would remain the most convenient way to pay for things, while being able to keep like 2% more of what they charge merchants.

callalex 3y ago
This is already a completely solved problem in most of the world. They simply cap the fees card companies can collect from merchants by law.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  That sounds unlikely to me to be "solved" rather than "a different local maximum". I'm very skeptical that any governments know the single perfect solution to the formula of the precise level of merchant fees that is the best possible solution.
  - CuriouslyC 3y ago
    If you cap fees, all that will happen is high risk businesses won't be able to accept cards and the processors will find ways to nickel and dime (+pos fee, paper billing fee, customer service fee, etc). It's still a better world though.
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      Maybe? For some people? I dunno, that sounds like it would mostly be worse for me, to have fewer points and fewer places that take cards. But even if it's better, it definitely doesn't seem "solved" to me... I think "solved" would be more like, fraud protection without credit, competition among card processing network driving merchant costs to access a network very low, people almost entirely using convenient fraud-protected debit cards like cash.
nfriedly 3y ago