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And there's Android, out activating the iPhone three to one. Apparently those Android phones are either made out of cardboard, or the manufacturers found compon

by batista 15y ago

And there's Android, out activating the iPhone three to one. Apparently those Android phones are either made out of cardboard, or the manufacturers found components. Those 3-1 are in the cheaper end of the market. Those devices could as well be made out of cardboard. You can't compare Android vs iPhone sales by lumping "get for free with a contract" Android devices in the lower tier of the market. They are sold to people who don't even care about the "smart" in smartphones, anyway. That's why the iPhone has more profit despite less market share, and that's why the iOS App ecosystem makes 5 times the money the Android one does, and that's why iPhone users use 80% of the mobile web traffic while there are more Android devices.

quanticle 15y ago
You can't compare Android vs iPhone sales by lumping "get for free with a contract" Android devices in the lower tier of the market. They are sold to people who don't even care about the "smart" in smartphones, anyway. Uh, that's a pretty bold assertion to make without bringing any data to back it up. How do you know that those consumers don't care about data access? How do you know that they don't "care about the 'smart' in smartphones"?
- RegEx 15y ago
  Around here, pretentiousness is all the evidence you ever need.
- r00fus 15y ago
  Look, I know "plural of anecdote != data", but I know several (5) people who have purchased a smartphone in the past 6 months, including myself. 2 got droids, 3 got iphones. I've know the rough usage patterns of all the folks by asking what apps/services they use. The droid users use it as a 1) phone, 2) email/message device, 3) maps and 4) one or two apps (not games). Basically, a google core-apps phone. One of the iPhone users is similar to the droid users (in addition, using the phone for taking photos/videos often). Now the two remaining iPhone users are heavy data-folks. Both use bluetooth accessories, and in addition to the above uses, also play games, do twitter/social sharing, run lots of web searches. Not a single of these users tethers or does advanced remote computing (ie, shell/vnc) - so are more "mainstream" users.
  - mayanksinghal 15y ago
    I do tethering, remote computing, play games, do not use maps - or phone that often, do social sharing and run A LOT of web searches. And no I am not on iPhone.
  - quanticle 15y ago
    Right, but I can counter your anecdote with my own. All of the iPhone users I know are like your Droid users. They use their iPhone for 1) making phone calls 2) checking e-mail 3) browsing the web. None have jailbroken their iPhone or installed more than 10 apps. I contrast that with the Android users I know (including myself). I know of only one user who is still on a stock ROM. I don't know of any that have less than 15 apps. If you haven't figured it out yet, most of the iOS users I know are older adults who value simplicity and ease of use. Most of the younger people I know value Android and are more than willing to accept a slightly higher initial complexity for vastly greater control. That's why I asked for data, specifically. It's very easy to draw incorrect conclusions by extrapolating from your own worldview, simply because your friends tend to be like you. The only comparison I've seen between Android and iOS users is this (http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/17/smartphone-data-usage-jumps-89-in-the-u-s-android-users-still-biggest-gluttons/ http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/17/smartphone-data-usage-jumps-89...) 9 month old study comparing the data usage between Android and iPhone users, and that actually stated that Android users consume more data than iPhone users. So, given that, I don't see how anyone can confidently assert that iPhone users use their phones more heavily than Android users. The (admittedly weak) data tells us the opposite, if it tells us anything at all.
    - robocat 15y ago
      Anecdote: the Android users I see are either: a) engineer types (high end device, many apps) or b) majority lower-income (cheap device, few or no apps)
- freehunter 15y ago
  If they cared how smart their phone was, they wouldn't be running a low end phone with a processor that restricts them from running the "smart" apps. Functionality comes at a cost, and low cost comes at the sacrifice of functionality.
shingen 15y ago
Of course the Android sales dominate the cheaper end of the market. Apple dominates the expensive end of the market, as I said (lower market share, high margin). I always find it fascinating how the Apple arguments now center almost exclusively on who's making the most money. It's a fine argument to make, but it sure sounds shallow when you stack it up against the supposed Apple ethos. You'll notice I didn't say Apple wouldn't dominate the profit center, much like they do in PCs. I said they'll lose their market dominance. Their market share will erode until it finds a balancing point based on the iPad being at the high end of the product category. Apple has no interest in positioning the iPad anywhere else, so they will absolutely hold their pricing high.
- gnaffle 15y ago
  The iPod disproves your assertion that Apple will hold their pricing high. They will rather sell high-priced devices than crap, but if they can they will compete on price. Look at the iPhones, where the iPhone 4 sells for $99 and the iPhone 3GS sells for $0. And now, they're selling the iPad 2 for $399.
- batista 15y ago
  I always find it fascinating how the Apple arguments now center almost exclusively on who's making the most money. It's a fine argument to make, but it sure sounds shallow when you stack it up against the supposed Apple ethos. Apple is a company, it's out to make money. What "Apple ethos"? If anything, the Apple ethos is about designing highly usable, uncomplicated and beautiful devices and software. Which they kinda do --and has nothing to do with what part of the market they target.
  - shingen 15y ago
    Because the traditional arguments, going back 30 years now, have strictly been in favor of Apple's design and product purity, not that they could get the most cash out of their customers with the highest prices.
    - krschultz 15y ago
beatle 15y ago
Android is the modern day Nokia. Like Android today, Nokia had a huge market share. but that market share was useless because their users didn't give a shit about their crappy phones. their users were not spending money, etc.
- falling 15y ago
  Not really. Maybe you lived in the US, where they've never been popular, but back in the day people absolutely loved their Nokia and never wanted to change to another brand. Nokia was the cool kid at the time. (myself I always thought they had the best hardware and craptastic software)
  - anonymoushn 15y ago
    This is still true. The N9 has amazing specs, but you wouldn't know it by trying to use the thing.
  - semanticist 15y ago
    Working at Nokia UK tech support, we had people calling up and pleading for us to sell 6310is. There's people out there who have stockpiled those handsets so they can keep using them as their existing handset fails. Some of those people loved their Nokias entirely too much.
kaolinite 15y ago
Unsure about your other points, but I believe the most recent statistic is that the Android browser is the most popular mobile browser and that Android users are using the most data of any smartphone OS. Still, I think the big advantage of Android is the variety. There's pretty much an Android device for whatever it is you require, whether that's a phone with a built-in projector, a phone with a 41MP camera, a top-of-the-range quadcore smartphone or a cheap-as-chips-barely-a-smartphone smartphone.
- othermaciej 15y ago
  Safari is the most used mobile browser, at 61% vs 18% for Android: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0&qpcustomd=1 http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qp... This makes it pretty unlikely that your stat about data usage is right either.
  - kaolinite 15y ago
    http://mashable.com/2012/03/05/android-robot-now-worlds-most-popular-mobile-browser-report/ http://mashable.com/2012/03/05/android-robot-now-worlds-most...
    - schiffern 15y ago
      Your article compares the number of browsers shipped, but batista was talking about mobile data traffic. He's asking, "How many people actually use the 'smart' in smartphone?" http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=1&qpcustomb=1 http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpri... iOS originates 61% of mobile data traffic vs. 19% for Android.
- gareim 15y ago
  The statistics separated the iPod Touch from the iPhone and didn't seem to have any mention of the iPad either.
- SystemOut 15y ago
  Sure, there is variety but from a market perspective how many people really care about each of those special devices? The whole reason that Apple is so successful is they build the device that just works for most people out there. Most people just don't care about the 41MP camera, the projector, etc... Most of my circle of close friends are not geeks and Android frustrates them, it confuses them....and none of them, not a single one have even asked me about an Android based tablet other than the Fire and that doesn't even really count. Most of these friends are the ones that Samsung and other higher end Android devices would love to have as customers...highly educated with high disposable income. And they don't even consider their devices. Variety is over valued in the geek community and just doesn't drive real profits in most cases and I believe this is one of them. Each of those unique phones has a lower profit ratio and drives a race to the bottom in quality because of it. None of them will drive enough sales to have a decent profit margin due to additional engineering, marketing, and support costs due to the different models. Now, to be sure, Android isn't going away and eventually someone will find a way to make a dent in the iPad's market share but I just think the tablet market is very very different from the smart phone market. Everyone pretty much has a mobile phone and when you can get a smartphone for free you take it...but the tablet market is more discretionary and there and I just don't see people going away from iPad. If anything, the iPad could be what helps continue to drive iPhone sales since you can share your apps across devices.

by batista 15y ago

quanticle 15y ago

You can't compare Android vs iPhone sales by lumping "get for free with a contract" Android devices in the lower tier of the market. They are sold to people who don't even care about the "smart" in smartphones, anyway. Uh, that's a pretty bold assertion to make without bringing any data to back it up. How do you know that those consumers don't care about data access? How do you know that they don't "care about the 'smart' in smartphones"?

RegEx 15y ago
Around here, pretentiousness is all the evidence you ever need.
r00fus 15y ago
Look, I know "plural of anecdote != data", but I know several (5) people who have purchased a smartphone in the past 6 months, including myself. 2 got droids, 3 got iphones. I've know the rough usage patterns of all the folks by asking what apps/services they use. The droid users use it as a 1) phone, 2) email/message device, 3) maps and 4) one or two apps (not games). Basically, a google core-apps phone. One of the iPhone users is similar to the droid users (in addition, using the phone for taking photos/videos often). Now the two remaining iPhone users are heavy data-folks. Both use bluetooth accessories, and in addition to the above uses, also play games, do twitter/social sharing, run lots of web searches. Not a single of these users tethers or does advanced remote computing (ie, shell/vnc) - so are more "mainstream" users.
- mayanksinghal 15y ago
  I do tethering, remote computing, play games, do not use maps - or phone that often, do social sharing and run A LOT of web searches. And no I am not on iPhone.
- quanticle 15y ago
  Right, but I can counter your anecdote with my own. All of the iPhone users I know are like your Droid users. They use their iPhone for 1) making phone calls 2) checking e-mail 3) browsing the web. None have jailbroken their iPhone or installed more than 10 apps. I contrast that with the Android users I know (including myself). I know of only one user who is still on a stock ROM. I don't know of any that have less than 15 apps. If you haven't figured it out yet, most of the iOS users I know are older adults who value simplicity and ease of use. Most of the younger people I know value Android and are more than willing to accept a slightly higher initial complexity for vastly greater control. That's why I asked for data, specifically. It's very easy to draw incorrect conclusions by extrapolating from your own worldview, simply because your friends tend to be like you. The only comparison I've seen between Android and iOS users is this (http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/17/smartphone-data-usage-jumps-89-in-the-u-s-android-users-still-biggest-gluttons/ http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/17/smartphone-data-usage-jumps-89...) 9 month old study comparing the data usage between Android and iPhone users, and that actually stated that Android users consume more data than iPhone users. So, given that, I don't see how anyone can confidently assert that iPhone users use their phones more heavily than Android users. The (admittedly weak) data tells us the opposite, if it tells us anything at all.
  - robocat 15y ago
    Anecdote: the Android users I see are either: a) engineer types (high end device, many apps) or b) majority lower-income (cheap device, few or no apps)
freehunter 15y ago
If they cared how smart their phone was, they wouldn't be running a low end phone with a processor that restricts them from running the "smart" apps. Functionality comes at a cost, and low cost comes at the sacrifice of functionality.

shingen 15y ago

Of course the Android sales dominate the cheaper end of the market. Apple dominates the expensive end of the market, as I said (lower market share, high margin). I always find it fascinating how the Apple arguments now center almost exclusively on who's making the most money. It's a fine argument to make, but it sure sounds shallow when you stack it up against the supposed Apple ethos. You'll notice I didn't say Apple wouldn't dominate the profit center, much like they do in PCs. I said they'll lose their market dominance. Their market share will erode until it finds a balancing point based on the iPad being at the high end of the product category. Apple has no interest in positioning the iPad anywhere else, so they will absolutely hold their pricing high.

gnaffle 15y ago
The iPod disproves your assertion that Apple will hold their pricing high. They will rather sell high-priced devices than crap, but if they can they will compete on price. Look at the iPhones, where the iPhone 4 sells for $99 and the iPhone 3GS sells for $0. And now, they're selling the iPad 2 for $399.
batista 15y ago
I always find it fascinating how the Apple arguments now center almost exclusively on who's making the most money. It's a fine argument to make, but it sure sounds shallow when you stack it up against the supposed Apple ethos. Apple is a company, it's out to make money. What "Apple ethos"? If anything, the Apple ethos is about designing highly usable, uncomplicated and beautiful devices and software. Which they kinda do --and has nothing to do with what part of the market they target.
- shingen 15y ago
  Because the traditional arguments, going back 30 years now, have strictly been in favor of Apple's design and product purity, not that they could get the most cash out of their customers with the highest prices.
  - krschultz 15y ago

beatle 15y ago

Android is the modern day Nokia. Like Android today, Nokia had a huge market share. but that market share was useless because their users didn't give a shit about their crappy phones. their users were not spending money, etc.

falling 15y ago
Not really. Maybe you lived in the US, where they've never been popular, but back in the day people absolutely loved their Nokia and never wanted to change to another brand. Nokia was the cool kid at the time. (myself I always thought they had the best hardware and craptastic software)
- anonymoushn 15y ago
  This is still true. The N9 has amazing specs, but you wouldn't know it by trying to use the thing.
- semanticist 15y ago
  Working at Nokia UK tech support, we had people calling up and pleading for us to sell 6310is. There's people out there who have stockpiled those handsets so they can keep using them as their existing handset fails. Some of those people loved their Nokias entirely too much.

kaolinite 15y ago

Unsure about your other points, but I believe the most recent statistic is that the Android browser is the most popular mobile browser and that Android users are using the most data of any smartphone OS. Still, I think the big advantage of Android is the variety. There's pretty much an Android device for whatever it is you require, whether that's a phone with a built-in projector, a phone with a 41MP camera, a top-of-the-range quadcore smartphone or a cheap-as-chips-barely-a-smartphone smartphone.

othermaciej 15y ago
Safari is the most used mobile browser, at 61% vs 18% for Android: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0&qpcustomd=1 http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qp... This makes it pretty unlikely that your stat about data usage is right either.
- kaolinite 15y ago
  http://mashable.com/2012/03/05/android-robot-now-worlds-most-popular-mobile-browser-report/ http://mashable.com/2012/03/05/android-robot-now-worlds-most...
  - schiffern 15y ago
    Your article compares the number of browsers shipped, but batista was talking about mobile data traffic. He's asking, "How many people actually use the 'smart' in smartphone?" http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=1&qpcustomb=1 http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpri... iOS originates 61% of mobile data traffic vs. 19% for Android.
gareim 15y ago
The statistics separated the iPod Touch from the iPhone and didn't seem to have any mention of the iPad either.
SystemOut 15y ago
Sure, there is variety but from a market perspective how many people really care about each of those special devices? The whole reason that Apple is so successful is they build the device that just works for most people out there. Most people just don't care about the 41MP camera, the projector, etc... Most of my circle of close friends are not geeks and Android frustrates them, it confuses them....and none of them, not a single one have even asked me about an Android based tablet other than the Fire and that doesn't even really count. Most of these friends are the ones that Samsung and other higher end Android devices would love to have as customers...highly educated with high disposable income. And they don't even consider their devices. Variety is over valued in the geek community and just doesn't drive real profits in most cases and I believe this is one of them. Each of those unique phones has a lower profit ratio and drives a race to the bottom in quality because of it. None of them will drive enough sales to have a decent profit margin due to additional engineering, marketing, and support costs due to the different models. Now, to be sure, Android isn't going away and eventually someone will find a way to make a dent in the iPad's market share but I just think the tablet market is very very different from the smart phone market. Everyone pretty much has a mobile phone and when you can get a smartphone for free you take it...but the tablet market is more discretionary and there and I just don't see people going away from iPad. If anything, the iPad could be what helps continue to drive iPhone sales since you can share your apps across devices.