4 ms·

> People keep telling me that consciousness is just some illusion In my view, consciousness is the only thing that can not be an illusion. If it's an illusion,

> People keep telling me that consciousness is just some illusion In my view, consciousness is the only thing that can not be an illusion. If it's an illusion, who is being fooled? Consciousness isn't the illusion, it's the audience. > If you have a mathematical universe with seed 42, which you spend a lot of effort actually simulating, it is not in any way different from a mathematical universe with seed 43 Yes, this is the key point of the mathematical universe (for me). No simulation has to occur. There is no way to tell, from within the mathematical universe, whether or not anyone is running the simulation. The simulation helps someone outside find out what happens in the universe, but the stuff that happens in the universe happens whether you simulate it or not. All of the possible mathematical universes "exist" and are equally valid. "Existence" and "the passage of time" are things that only make sense within the mathematical universe. There is nothing outside.

thriftwy 3y ago
Why do I have this long term feeling that I exist in a specific mathematical universe and is absent from all others, or at least represent an unique path distinct from all other paths which I am not? Who does the feeling part? Who is the audience? When you run simulation there's at least some audience, but in case of math universe there is only archeology, by definition. Mathematical object has no original, only replicas.
- benlivengood 3y ago
  I think for humans our memory is why we only feel connected to a particular causal timeline of consciousness. For myself I am conscious of the present moment and of my memories and of my imagination. For us to be conscious of our experiences in other universes or timelines we would need a way to know what those experiences are like. In our universe memory is a cheap way of recording what the causal past was like vs. needing to compute/simulate what happens in other timelines with enough accuracy to be as fully conscious of it as we are of our memories.
naasking 3y ago
> In my view, consciousness is the only thing that can not be an illusion. If it's an illusion, who is being fooled? Consciousness isn't the illusion, it's the audience. I don't why people keep being taken by this silly argument. You've merely assumed that "illusion" requires a subject. Here's a definition of illusion that doesn't require a subject: a perception that entails a false conclusion if taken at face value. There, now "consciousness is an illusion" is simply, "consciousness is a perception from which we falsely infer the existence of subjective qualities".
- goatlover 3y ago
  Subjective qualities like color and pain? What about dreams and imagination? Illusions are misleading conscious experiences, usually perceptual. That's why it doesn't make much sense to say consciousness is itself an illusion.
  - naasking 3y ago
    > Subjective qualities like color and pain? Colour is perceived. The "what is it like" to see colour is the qualitative illusion. Ditto for pain. > What about dreams and imagination? What about them? Does Midjourney plausibly imagine the scenes it generates? > Illusions are misleading conscious experiences, usually perceptual Illusions are misleading perceptions. There's no reason to throw "conscious" in there at all, it just muddies an otherwise simple concept.

thriftwy 3y ago

Why do I have this long term feeling that I exist in a specific mathematical universe and is absent from all others, or at least represent an unique path distinct from all other paths which I am not? Who does the feeling part? Who is the audience? When you run simulation there's at least some audience, but in case of math universe there is only archeology, by definition. Mathematical object has no original, only replicas.

benlivengood 3y ago
I think for humans our memory is why we only feel connected to a particular causal timeline of consciousness. For myself I am conscious of the present moment and of my memories and of my imagination. For us to be conscious of our experiences in other universes or timelines we would need a way to know what those experiences are like. In our universe memory is a cheap way of recording what the causal past was like vs. needing to compute/simulate what happens in other timelines with enough accuracy to be as fully conscious of it as we are of our memories.

naasking 3y ago

> In my view, consciousness is the only thing that can not be an illusion. If it's an illusion, who is being fooled? Consciousness isn't the illusion, it's the audience. I don't why people keep being taken by this silly argument. You've merely assumed that "illusion" requires a subject. Here's a definition of illusion that doesn't require a subject: a perception that entails a false conclusion if taken at face value. There, now "consciousness is an illusion" is simply, "consciousness is a perception from which we falsely infer the existence of subjective qualities".

goatlover 3y ago
Subjective qualities like color and pain? What about dreams and imagination? Illusions are misleading conscious experiences, usually perceptual. That's why it doesn't make much sense to say consciousness is itself an illusion.
- naasking 3y ago
  > Subjective qualities like color and pain? Colour is perceived. The "what is it like" to see colour is the qualitative illusion. Ditto for pain. > What about dreams and imagination? What about them? Does Midjourney plausibly imagine the scenes it generates? > Illusions are misleading conscious experiences, usually perceptual Illusions are misleading perceptions. There's no reason to throw "conscious" in there at all, it just muddies an otherwise simple concept.