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> Apple famously doesn't do any of this with your iPhone You're arguing in favor of a product tour. iOS usability is garbage. There are no affordances. Nothing

by smt88 3y ago

> Apple famously doesn't do any of this with your iPhone You're arguing in favor of a product tour. iOS usability is garbage. There are no affordances. Nothing is discoverable. There are a million inputs (mostly gestures) that no one ever finds out about unless someone tells them or they Google it, and they're not consistent across apps, even first-party apps. Sometimes "swipe the row left" means "remove," sometimes it means "more actions". It's just a jumble of inconsistent nonsense. Watch a non-tech person use their iPhone. They have no idea that they can do 50% of the things that they can do. Ever see anyone use "shake to undo" for example?

MrBodangles 3y ago
“Shake to undo” also doesn’t work more often than it does. You’d assume an OS-specific keyboard interaction would work anywhere there’s text input, but no!
- pests 3y ago
  The only time I use that gesture is when I drop my phone.
  - smt88 3y ago
    You can disable it in Accessibility settings
enraged_camel 3y ago
>> iOS usability is garbage Yes, that must be why my technologically illiterate 90-year-old grandpa was able to figure out how to use an iPhone after being shown a single swipe gesture.
- tekchip 3y ago
  My 65, at the time, year old father figured out Android just fine. What point was your n of 1 example trying to make? Please try to keep in mind there is a wide breadth of technical prowess, thought patterns, and comprehension out there. What works great for some people doesn't for others. Also something to keep it mind being able to "figure something out" or "use it" doesn't necessarily make it a good experience, or an ideal one.
  - superdug 3y ago
    Please excuse the last remnants of the technology debate of “Are Apple products worth the higher price tag of their very capable competitors?” It’s been happening since Apple came into existence with people defending or arguing against Macintosh computers to where it is now with cell phones and the higher cost of entry priced iPhones. The ecosystem Apple created is the great divider. It’s a closed garden in every sense of the word, but still a great garden where if you’re okay with the HOA, you can live right on top of.
Etheryte 3y ago
People not knowing some of the features is not really a problem, because it doesn't matter. Every single one of my elderly relatives can use an iPhone after a quick intro and they don't need help afterwards. The device is essentially self-serve once you understand one or two core ideas. Them not knowing about some features is not a problem, they can do all the important things without someone helping them out. No other smartphone platform has delivered that.
- sgc 3y ago
  Come on, iOS is not so special. Grandmas all over the world get by just fine on an Android as well. If you don't do much with your device, you don't need much. At the same time, it is obvious that gestures should be consistent, and the documentation should be clear, on device, and easy to find.
  - Etheryte 3y ago
    I think this is a point where we'll fundamentally disagree, for all practical intents and purposes, no regular user ever has or ever will read the manual for their smartphone. Your phone comes with one, have you read it? Documentation is a crutch for complexity and it's only acceptable for hard topics and advanced users. Most people don't even touch the manuals for all the appliances they own, never mind your elderly relatives. If they run into a problem, they'll ask someone to help, not look for the manual.
  - superdug 3y ago
    I think you’re missing a key fact about who cell phone users _can_ _be_. The dumbest people on this planet can still pick up any iPhone anywhere and be able to use it even if they’ve never used the device itself once. It’s muscle memory to people who wouldn’t know what to do with a manual in the first place. You have to accept that there is no barrier to advanced communication technology to anyone with the means to procure said devices. While I appreciate a finely tuned platform for my technology uses, I still carry an iPhone in particular so that I don’t need to do all of that advanced tweaking and personalization by sacrificing maybe 5% of my overall performance by using an unmodified iPhone running iOS in particular. Sacrificing that 5% of performance means the device has no barrier of entry for 99.9% of humans old enough and cognizant enough to procure a similar technology and be able to fully interact with me on a digital medium. Bringing it back to the topic at hand, those 99.9% of people includes family members who didn’t grow up with electricity let alone technology.
brazzledazzle 3y ago
> They have no idea that they can do 50% of the things that they can do Maybe even more than that. I know people that have used iOS for years and don't know they can copy/paste text or drag down to search in messages, mail and settings.
jahewson 3y ago
These are basically power user features. You don’t need them to get by on everyday tasks. They just help. Just like right-click on the desktop.

by smt88 3y ago

MrBodangles 3y ago

“Shake to undo” also doesn’t work more often than it does. You’d assume an OS-specific keyboard interaction would work anywhere there’s text input, but no!

pests 3y ago
The only time I use that gesture is when I drop my phone.
- smt88 3y ago
  You can disable it in Accessibility settings

enraged_camel 3y ago

>> iOS usability is garbage Yes, that must be why my technologically illiterate 90-year-old grandpa was able to figure out how to use an iPhone after being shown a single swipe gesture.

tekchip 3y ago
My 65, at the time, year old father figured out Android just fine. What point was your n of 1 example trying to make? Please try to keep in mind there is a wide breadth of technical prowess, thought patterns, and comprehension out there. What works great for some people doesn't for others. Also something to keep it mind being able to "figure something out" or "use it" doesn't necessarily make it a good experience, or an ideal one.
- superdug 3y ago
  Please excuse the last remnants of the technology debate of “Are Apple products worth the higher price tag of their very capable competitors?” It’s been happening since Apple came into existence with people defending or arguing against Macintosh computers to where it is now with cell phones and the higher cost of entry priced iPhones. The ecosystem Apple created is the great divider. It’s a closed garden in every sense of the word, but still a great garden where if you’re okay with the HOA, you can live right on top of.

Etheryte 3y ago

People not knowing some of the features is not really a problem, because it doesn't matter. Every single one of my elderly relatives can use an iPhone after a quick intro and they don't need help afterwards. The device is essentially self-serve once you understand one or two core ideas. Them not knowing about some features is not a problem, they can do all the important things without someone helping them out. No other smartphone platform has delivered that.

sgc 3y ago
Come on, iOS is not so special. Grandmas all over the world get by just fine on an Android as well. If you don't do much with your device, you don't need much. At the same time, it is obvious that gestures should be consistent, and the documentation should be clear, on device, and easy to find.
- Etheryte 3y ago
  I think this is a point where we'll fundamentally disagree, for all practical intents and purposes, no regular user ever has or ever will read the manual for their smartphone. Your phone comes with one, have you read it? Documentation is a crutch for complexity and it's only acceptable for hard topics and advanced users. Most people don't even touch the manuals for all the appliances they own, never mind your elderly relatives. If they run into a problem, they'll ask someone to help, not look for the manual.
- superdug 3y ago
  I think you’re missing a key fact about who cell phone users _can_ _be_. The dumbest people on this planet can still pick up any iPhone anywhere and be able to use it even if they’ve never used the device itself once. It’s muscle memory to people who wouldn’t know what to do with a manual in the first place. You have to accept that there is no barrier to advanced communication technology to anyone with the means to procure said devices. While I appreciate a finely tuned platform for my technology uses, I still carry an iPhone in particular so that I don’t need to do all of that advanced tweaking and personalization by sacrificing maybe 5% of my overall performance by using an unmodified iPhone running iOS in particular. Sacrificing that 5% of performance means the device has no barrier of entry for 99.9% of humans old enough and cognizant enough to procure a similar technology and be able to fully interact with me on a digital medium. Bringing it back to the topic at hand, those 99.9% of people includes family members who didn’t grow up with electricity let alone technology.

brazzledazzle 3y ago

> They have no idea that they can do 50% of the things that they can do Maybe even more than that. I know people that have used iOS for years and don't know they can copy/paste text or drag down to search in messages, mail and settings.

jahewson 3y ago

These are basically power user features. You don’t need them to get by on everyday tasks. They just help. Just like right-click on the desktop.