3 ms·

It's not ableist. It's just incorrect. It wouldn't be wrong if you replaced Asperger's with say ADHD. Be careful of slapping -ism/-ist labels on anything that

by slily 3y ago

It's not ableist. It's just incorrect. It wouldn't be wrong if you replaced Asperger's with say ADHD. Be careful of slapping -ism/-ist labels on anything that offends you personally when there's no clear discriminatory intent.

maxbond 3y ago
I would still call that ableist and an abuse of therapy language. You don't need to tarnish everyone with ADHD to criticize a single person. You shouldn't use therapy language as a cudgel. Discriminatory intent isn't required, a discriminatory outcome is. Random people with ADHD don't need to catch strays here. The criticism is that he is impulsive and that he isn't properly managing himself. No diagnosis is required.
- slily 3y ago
  I think you might be seeing criticism where there isn't because it's about Elon Musk. I agree with the sentiment that you don't need to "diagnose" everyone and everything, but I think that's also a symptom of our tendency to want to apply labels to everything we see.
  - maxbond 3y ago
    I understand you may not be levying a criticism, and I don't mean to put words in your mouth because I know you didn't make the claim which is at issue, but it's difficult for me to read "he makes impulsive business decisions" as not being a criticism. Especially given the context, where a bunch of people are explicitly being critical.
    - slily 3y ago
      For me criticism has a "judgey" connotation whereas I see this as more of an observation, but I understand associating a negative trait with Asperger's as if it inevitably leads to that trait being off-putting.
zeroonetwothree 3y ago
It’s clearly ableist to attribute one individuals dumb action to their condition. Imagine if someone said “Musk only did this because he’s white/male”—that would be racist/sexist.
- slily 3y ago
  There's a big difference between attributing a set of behaviors to a mental condition that is known to influence patterns of thinking and behavior, and attributing it to skin color. You can clearly tell that Musk has Asperger's just from hearing him speak or even reading some of his tweets (at least I can, maybe because I have it too), is making that observation also "ableist" or do you only consider it to be ableist because it is attributing his managerial decisions to that? We may be arguing semantics because nowadays "-ism"s are used as shorthand for generalization instead of prejudice and I prefer to stick to the latter definition to avoid attributing discriminatory intent.
  - foobarbecue 3y ago
    > You can clearly tell that Musk has Asperger's just from hearing him speak or even reading some of his tweets No, you can't. Not even a certified medical professional would claim to be able to "clearly" diagnose a patient based on their public persona.
  - prox 3y ago
    Also I would like to add that Musk himself has said he has Aspergers in that interview. So it’s self declared at least.

by slily 3y ago

maxbond 3y ago

I would still call that ableist and an abuse of therapy language. You don't need to tarnish everyone with ADHD to criticize a single person. You shouldn't use therapy language as a cudgel. Discriminatory intent isn't required, a discriminatory outcome is. Random people with ADHD don't need to catch strays here. The criticism is that he is impulsive and that he isn't properly managing himself. No diagnosis is required.

slily 3y ago
I think you might be seeing criticism where there isn't because it's about Elon Musk. I agree with the sentiment that you don't need to "diagnose" everyone and everything, but I think that's also a symptom of our tendency to want to apply labels to everything we see.
- maxbond 3y ago
  I understand you may not be levying a criticism, and I don't mean to put words in your mouth because I know you didn't make the claim which is at issue, but it's difficult for me to read "he makes impulsive business decisions" as not being a criticism. Especially given the context, where a bunch of people are explicitly being critical.
  - slily 3y ago
    For me criticism has a "judgey" connotation whereas I see this as more of an observation, but I understand associating a negative trait with Asperger's as if it inevitably leads to that trait being off-putting.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago

It’s clearly ableist to attribute one individuals dumb action to their condition. Imagine if someone said “Musk only did this because he’s white/male”—that would be racist/sexist.

slily 3y ago
There's a big difference between attributing a set of behaviors to a mental condition that is known to influence patterns of thinking and behavior, and attributing it to skin color. You can clearly tell that Musk has Asperger's just from hearing him speak or even reading some of his tweets (at least I can, maybe because I have it too), is making that observation also "ableist" or do you only consider it to be ableist because it is attributing his managerial decisions to that? We may be arguing semantics because nowadays "-ism"s are used as shorthand for generalization instead of prejudice and I prefer to stick to the latter definition to avoid attributing discriminatory intent.
- foobarbecue 3y ago
  > You can clearly tell that Musk has Asperger's just from hearing him speak or even reading some of his tweets No, you can't. Not even a certified medical professional would claim to be able to "clearly" diagnose a patient based on their public persona.
- prox 3y ago
  Also I would like to add that Musk himself has said he has Aspergers in that interview. So it’s self declared at least.