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I can see why you think that, but I think you're wrong. Musk's success in Zip2 and X.com was mostly realizing there was a market opportunity and working long h

I can see why you think that, but I think you're wrong. Musk's success in Zip2 and X.com was mostly realizing there was a market opportunity and working long hours personally on the code to get the sites up and running. With SpaceX and Telsa mostly his value-add has been looking at things and saying "This isn't elegantly designed enough" sort of like Steve Jobs but for internals. And he seems to be right often enough to be successful. But he seems to think that he has this ability for software engineering and user interfaces too, but he doesn't. Which is why he was canned at PayPal and why he's making such a mess of Twitter. All people are composed of both strengths and weaknesses. The important part is finding a position which plays to your strenths. Sadly, I think critical introspection is a strength that Elon doesn't possess.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> critical introspection is a strength that Elon doesn't possess He absolutely does. We’ve seen it in his prior reversals, when fortunes at his firms were down and he changed course savvily. The sycophants he’s surrounded himself with, namely, Jason Calacanis, Chamath Palihapitiya and David Sacks, do not. And that’s rubbing off on him.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  The sycophants are one thing, but he's gone off the loon end himself for extremely personal stuff as well such as the names of his children with Grimes.
  - Robotbeat 3y ago
    Grimes also wanted a weird name.
    - omnibrain 3y ago
      Yes, but she‘s an artist.
      - andsoitis 3y ago
        > Yes, but she‘s an artist. “Being good in business is the most fascinating kind of art. Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art.” - Andy Warhol
    - jonlucc 3y ago
      Grimes isn't her given name. It's a chosen name, which is common in performers.
      - throwuwu 3y ago
        https://jezebel.com/grimes-has-changed-her-and-elon-musks-babys-name-to-a-q-1850270396 https://jezebel.com/grimes-has-changed-her-and-elon-musks-ba...
- danans 3y ago
  > The sycophants he’s surrounded himself with, namely, Jason Calacanis, Chamath Palihapitiya and David Sacks, do not. And that’s rubbing off on him. Shouldn't a person with a high ability for critical introspection be impervious to and deeply suspicious of the influences of sycophants?
- cornercasechase 3y ago
  > We’ve seen it in his prior reversals, when fortunes at his firms were down and he changed course savvily. More like when he gets called out on his lies and abuse, he buries what he previously said. When was the last time he talked about Hyperloop? Did he ever apologize to the person he accused of being a pedo? Robotaxis? He lies to pump his stock or ego, then hopes people forget what he said. That’s not “savvy”, it’s just sleazy.
samhuk 3y ago
[flagged]
jjk166 3y ago
> With SpaceX and Telsa mostly his value-add has been looking at things and saying "This isn't elegantly designed enough" sort of like Steve Jobs but for internals. And he seems to be right often enough to be successful. That wasn't his value add for either case. In both situations he brought together teams of extremely passionate and talented individuals and gave them a greenlight to employ a "move fast and break things" mindset that they otherwise couldn't in extremely conservative industries. Elon didn't send people back to the drawing board because he had some vision of a more elegant solution, they went back to the drawing board after the most recent iteration exploded.
- adamnaga 3y ago
  [flagged]
tiffanyg 3y ago
I think you're making some good points - Zip2 and X, whatever the ultimate "quality" of the tech / UI*, realizing the opportunities, pushing to ship quickly, etc., that was all key. Musk was a clear driver. With SpaceX and Tesla, I'm not as sure about the facts - I believe there is / was a strong component of "Jobs", but also (especially at Tesla), plenty of pissing engineers off with really BAD proposed solutions. I.e., plenty of "thinking differently" (which can be very valuable, and Musk has had some notable successes here and there), but not enough "filter". I would say, though, that as his value** has fluctuated on the technical side (and, I personally have the sense has likely never been that high), he did build some real strength in "branding" and selling / marketing. He created / built a personal brand, especially, that was quite important in raising money / funding for R&D etc. at SpaceX and Tesla, especially. Ultimately, his arc is ... an archetype. His arc is a great example of a pattern that is seen frequently (enough) among ambitious people who become very successful through drive, risk-taking / (some degree of) unconventional thinking, etc. You see this with people like George Lucas, and part of it is the "yes men" trope alluded to in another comment. Basically, early in their careers, their impulses and "visions" and the like are tempered by others and organizational structures of various types. This tempering is a key additional filter which helps keep their creativity and problem-solving skills etc. more focused / ~"pointed in the right direction". But, over time, they gain more and more power - more and more freedom to do what they want, to not have to listen to anyone else. The decline in quality / success / etc. of their projects and companies seems to very closely mirror the degree to which they are unfiltered / unconstrained / no longer (so) dependent on others. Basically, classic human "ego stories" (that don't necessarily depend on "big ego", but even the simple blindness of "ego" we all have) recognized and well-explored by the Ancient Greeks, in particular (e.g., "Icarus", "Odysseus", etc.). * Not really pertinent / germane to this discussion ** To the degree I have any ability to judge, particularly as regards actual knowledge of much of this history (similar to the vast majority of people)
andsoitis 3y ago
> But he seems to think that he has this ability for software engineering and user interfaces too, but he doesn't. I find that many many people in software think they have a knack for thinking what is a good user interface, even though they are just users and not experts in the field.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> critical introspection is a strength that Elon doesn't possess He absolutely does. We’ve seen it in his prior reversals, when fortunes at his firms were down and he changed course savvily. The sycophants he’s surrounded himself with, namely, Jason Calacanis, Chamath Palihapitiya and David Sacks, do not. And that’s rubbing off on him.

mschuster91 3y ago
The sycophants are one thing, but he's gone off the loon end himself for extremely personal stuff as well such as the names of his children with Grimes.
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  Grimes also wanted a weird name.
  - omnibrain 3y ago
    Yes, but she‘s an artist.
    - andsoitis 3y ago
      > Yes, but she‘s an artist. “Being good in business is the most fascinating kind of art. Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art.” - Andy Warhol
  - jonlucc 3y ago
    Grimes isn't her given name. It's a chosen name, which is common in performers.
    - throwuwu 3y ago
      https://jezebel.com/grimes-has-changed-her-and-elon-musks-babys-name-to-a-q-1850270396 https://jezebel.com/grimes-has-changed-her-and-elon-musks-ba...
danans 3y ago
> The sycophants he’s surrounded himself with, namely, Jason Calacanis, Chamath Palihapitiya and David Sacks, do not. And that’s rubbing off on him. Shouldn't a person with a high ability for critical introspection be impervious to and deeply suspicious of the influences of sycophants?
cornercasechase 3y ago
> We’ve seen it in his prior reversals, when fortunes at his firms were down and he changed course savvily. More like when he gets called out on his lies and abuse, he buries what he previously said. When was the last time he talked about Hyperloop? Did he ever apologize to the person he accused of being a pedo? Robotaxis? He lies to pump his stock or ego, then hopes people forget what he said. That’s not “savvy”, it’s just sleazy.

samhuk 3y ago

[flagged]

jjk166 3y ago

> With SpaceX and Telsa mostly his value-add has been looking at things and saying "This isn't elegantly designed enough" sort of like Steve Jobs but for internals. And he seems to be right often enough to be successful. That wasn't his value add for either case. In both situations he brought together teams of extremely passionate and talented individuals and gave them a greenlight to employ a "move fast and break things" mindset that they otherwise couldn't in extremely conservative industries. Elon didn't send people back to the drawing board because he had some vision of a more elegant solution, they went back to the drawing board after the most recent iteration exploded.

adamnaga 3y ago
[flagged]

tiffanyg 3y ago

I think you're making some good points - Zip2 and X, whatever the ultimate "quality" of the tech / UI*, realizing the opportunities, pushing to ship quickly, etc., that was all key. Musk was a clear driver. With SpaceX and Tesla, I'm not as sure about the facts - I believe there is / was a strong component of "Jobs", but also (especially at Tesla), plenty of pissing engineers off with really BAD proposed solutions. I.e., plenty of "thinking differently" (which can be very valuable, and Musk has had some notable successes here and there), but not enough "filter". I would say, though, that as his value** has fluctuated on the technical side (and, I personally have the sense has likely never been that high), he did build some real strength in "branding" and selling / marketing. He created / built a personal brand, especially, that was quite important in raising money / funding for R&D etc. at SpaceX and Tesla, especially. Ultimately, his arc is ... an archetype. His arc is a great example of a pattern that is seen frequently (enough) among ambitious people who become very successful through drive, risk-taking / (some degree of) unconventional thinking, etc. You see this with people like George Lucas, and part of it is the "yes men" trope alluded to in another comment. Basically, early in their careers, their impulses and "visions" and the like are tempered by others and organizational structures of various types. This tempering is a key additional filter which helps keep their creativity and problem-solving skills etc. more focused / ~"pointed in the right direction". But, over time, they gain more and more power - more and more freedom to do what they want, to not have to listen to anyone else. The decline in quality / success / etc. of their projects and companies seems to very closely mirror the degree to which they are unfiltered / unconstrained / no longer (so) dependent on others. Basically, classic human "ego stories" (that don't necessarily depend on "big ego", but even the simple blindness of "ego" we all have) recognized and well-explored by the Ancient Greeks, in particular (e.g., "Icarus", "Odysseus", etc.). * Not really pertinent / germane to this discussion ** To the degree I have any ability to judge, particularly as regards actual knowledge of much of this history (similar to the vast majority of people)

andsoitis 3y ago

> But he seems to think that he has this ability for software engineering and user interfaces too, but he doesn't. I find that many many people in software think they have a knack for thinking what is a good user interface, even though they are just users and not experts in the field.