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> No product improvements Removing the tweet limit was a massive improvement (something I'd wanted for a decade). Showing view counts is also nice. I don't lik

> No product improvements Removing the tweet limit was a massive improvement (something I'd wanted for a decade). Showing view counts is also nice. I don't like the login-walls and selling blue checkmarks, but I understand that the company was financially struggling prior to Elon. In any case my impression has been that Twitter has improved more since Elon than prior to that. My Twitter usage is definitely higher than before, though admittedly that could be unrelated to Elon.

joshstrange 3y ago
What “tweet limit” are you talking about? Twitter went to 280 well before Musk and I’m almost certain view counts were there before him as well in the little bar chart icon.
- coldtea 3y ago
  He talks about this tweet limit: "The character limit for subscribers in the U.S. is now 4,000—more than 14 times the existing 280-character limit, which remains in place for all non-subscribers and Twitter Blue users outside of the United States".
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    I don’t browse Twitter since 3rd party apps got kicked to the curb but I think it’s telling that not a single tweet I have seen in the interim was longer than 280 (aka one that was popular enough to be posted here or somewhere else I’d see). I think less of people who have a blue check now. The idea of paying for “less ads” and shit features would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.
    - oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
      The humorous thing is that a lot some people are paying $8/month to then post tweets that most people (everyone?) only see the beginning of.
      - happymellon 3y ago
        So unless you are in the US and are a paying user, you can't even see these longer posts, or do they get truncated? I wonder what the motivation is for making the service less useful for non-Americans.
        oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
        They get truncated with a "show more" link that points to the full tweet (rather than expanding it in-place).
    - JSavageOne 3y ago
      Bill Ackman posts primarily long tweets, and I see it often enough from other random accounts that the feature is definitely being used. But even if it wasn't, just having the option is a nice feature. Always found it absurd how people in comments want to restrict peoples' freedoms in applications - I guess people are afraid of change, hence why these big corporations often stop innovating.
      - joshstrange 3y ago
        > Always found it absurd how people in comments want to restrict peoples' freedoms in applications "Restrict peoples' freedoms", good lord, as the kids say you might need to touch grass. What an absolutely absurd (and incorrect) thing to say. I just said I had never seen it, I didn't pass judgement for or against longer tweets. I think people that pay for that are silly but comparing that to restricting freedoms is just a new level of disconnected from reality.
        JSavageOne 3y ago
        restricting freedoms was referring to the people who were adamant on keeping Twitter's previous 280 character restriction, which I see now you weren't advocating for
  - happymellon 3y ago
    So the limit in the US for Twitter Blue users is 4000 characters, but even paying user outside the US are limited to 280? What a strange limitation, if the character limit is a problem, won't that just drive away users who see the service as racist now?
marcinzm 3y ago
>financially struggling prior to Elon It wasn't. It's been profitable every quarter except 2 since late 2017. Musk chose to load Twitter with massive debt when he bought it which is why it's now financially struggling after the buy out. That's not due to Twitter, that's due to Musk.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  A lot of public companies are managed in such a way that an LBO is basically financially infeasible. They do this intentionally. Musk's LBO of Twitter should not be expected to be going well.
- JSavageOne 3y ago
  Are you sure about that? Twitter's net loss in 2020 and 2021 were $1.1b and $221m.
  - marcinzm 3y ago
    In 2020 Twitter had one negative quarter because they performed a $1+b tax write off and the pandemic just started. In other words it's purely a paper loss. And in 2021 I believe they got fined by some government for something.
  - fomine3 3y ago
    And you don't quote net profit on 2018 and 2019
gjulianm 3y ago
> Removing the tweet limit was a massive improvement The essence of Twitter is precisely that the tweets are short, bite-sized thoughts. It's what drives interactions and engagement, removing the limit shows a lack of understanding of what makes Twitter Twitter. And I assume that most people aren't even using the limits even when they're paying Twitter blue, precisely because they know that it's not how you use Twitter. > Showing view counts is also nice I don't know if they have fixed this, but those view counts were fairly inaccurate. > I don't like the login-walls and selling blue checkmarks, but I understand that the company was financially struggling prior to Elon. The login walls and the blue checkmarks are again a massive mistake that is driving away brands and institutions from the site. Now their statements aren't visible to everyone, and people can't even be sure which one is the official account because the already existing symbol that said "this account is who they say they are" now just means "this account paid for Twitter".
- rvnx 3y ago
  It seems to be contradicting his statement that the login-walls are going to be removed.
- JSavageOne 3y ago
  > The essence of Twitter is precisely that the tweets are short, bite-sized thoughts Yea hard disagree there. I spend more time and get more value and depth from reading Twitter threads than random tweets. Twitter threads however are an abomination UI-wise and annoying to write. Longer tweets make more sense. In any case if you prefer shorter content that's fine, but there's nothing to be gained by restricting content type. Give people freedom and let the users decide what they find worthwhile. It's funny to me that everytime I'd mention increasing the tweet length all the replies I'd get would be people telling me I'm wrong and that Twitter should keep the same smaller character limit. It's like vocal people on the internet fear change. > massive mistake Whether it's a mistake comes down to how much revenue Twitter makes in blue checkmark fees vs. how much revenue they lost from advertisers bailing. I'd need to see some hard numbers on that before being able to call it a mistake. From a user perspective however I don't care at all. If anything making that more egalitarian instead of some mythical status symbol makes more sense. For the record I say all of this as someone who hasn't purchased a blue checkmark.
pavlov 3y ago
> "Removing the tweet limit was a massive improvement (something I'd wanted for a decade). Showing view counts is also nice." I used Twitter for a decade, and frustration was the primary emotion associated with the service. I had about a thousand followers but barely any engagement to anything I ever posted. There was never any positive reinforcement to an insignificant little guy like myself. I don't really see how longer tweets or view counts do anything to help with that fundamental problem. (View counts only make it more obvious that nobody cares about my tweets, which is presumably why Twitter had previously hidden them under the engagement metrics UI.) It's a platform dominated by big accounts. As the owner of one of the biggest accounts on Twitter, Musk doesn't experience or see the problem and can't fix it.
- amrocha 3y ago
  That's not a "fundamental problem", that's just the way it works. Unless you're already popular somewhere else, or your content is very good, strangers don't care about what you have to say. On Twitter or irl or on any other platform. People seem to have forgotten that social media is for friends. If you make friends on Twitter, they'll care about your content because they care about you.
- Siecje 3y ago
  I agree and I wonder what plan Threads has to fix it.
- JSavageOne 3y ago
  I'm in the same boat in that I have 1k followers and my tweets generally only get 10-30 views, which is pretty pathetic and seems oddly low. But maybe my content just sucks, idk. In any case being a Twitter influencer is not so important to me.
rchaud 3y ago
Social media besides FB and Tiktok are largely unprofitable. Twitter was no exception, but it was unique in that it had close to no debt and so could get financing fairly easily. With the acquisition, Musk added $13bn to Twitter's debt, and tanked their revenue by chasing off advertisers. Besides the ads for Starlink and SpaceX, every other advertiser on Twitter looks like a Wish.com-caliber brand. If they were struggling before, they're circling the drain now.
zimpenfish 3y ago
> Removing the tweet limit was a massive improvement Sure but Notes (long-form tweets) began public testing in June 2022, 4 months before he took over.
- JSavageOne 3y ago
  Notes were terrible though - having to click into a separate page that seemed entirely removed from the app. If I recall one couldn't even see replies to them. (at least that's my memory of it, admittedly it's been a while so could be off)

joshstrange 3y ago

What “tweet limit” are you talking about? Twitter went to 280 well before Musk and I’m almost certain view counts were there before him as well in the little bar chart icon.

coldtea 3y ago
He talks about this tweet limit: "The character limit for subscribers in the U.S. is now 4,000—more than 14 times the existing 280-character limit, which remains in place for all non-subscribers and Twitter Blue users outside of the United States".
- joshstrange 3y ago
  I don’t browse Twitter since 3rd party apps got kicked to the curb but I think it’s telling that not a single tweet I have seen in the interim was longer than 280 (aka one that was popular enough to be posted here or somewhere else I’d see). I think less of people who have a blue check now. The idea of paying for “less ads” and shit features would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.
  - oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
    The humorous thing is that a lot some people are paying $8/month to then post tweets that most people (everyone?) only see the beginning of.
    - happymellon 3y ago
      So unless you are in the US and are a paying user, you can't even see these longer posts, or do they get truncated? I wonder what the motivation is for making the service less useful for non-Americans.
      - oneeyedpigeon 3y ago
        They get truncated with a "show more" link that points to the full tweet (rather than expanding it in-place).
  - JSavageOne 3y ago
    Bill Ackman posts primarily long tweets, and I see it often enough from other random accounts that the feature is definitely being used. But even if it wasn't, just having the option is a nice feature. Always found it absurd how people in comments want to restrict peoples' freedoms in applications - I guess people are afraid of change, hence why these big corporations often stop innovating.
    - joshstrange 3y ago
      > Always found it absurd how people in comments want to restrict peoples' freedoms in applications "Restrict peoples' freedoms", good lord, as the kids say you might need to touch grass. What an absolutely absurd (and incorrect) thing to say. I just said I had never seen it, I didn't pass judgement for or against longer tweets. I think people that pay for that are silly but comparing that to restricting freedoms is just a new level of disconnected from reality.
      - JSavageOne 3y ago
        restricting freedoms was referring to the people who were adamant on keeping Twitter's previous 280 character restriction, which I see now you weren't advocating for
- happymellon 3y ago
  So the limit in the US for Twitter Blue users is 4000 characters, but even paying user outside the US are limited to 280? What a strange limitation, if the character limit is a problem, won't that just drive away users who see the service as racist now?

marcinzm 3y ago

>financially struggling prior to Elon It wasn't. It's been profitable every quarter except 2 since late 2017. Musk chose to load Twitter with massive debt when he bought it which is why it's now financially struggling after the buy out. That's not due to Twitter, that's due to Musk.

pclmulqdq 3y ago
A lot of public companies are managed in such a way that an LBO is basically financially infeasible. They do this intentionally. Musk's LBO of Twitter should not be expected to be going well.
JSavageOne 3y ago
Are you sure about that? Twitter's net loss in 2020 and 2021 were $1.1b and $221m.
- marcinzm 3y ago
  In 2020 Twitter had one negative quarter because they performed a $1+b tax write off and the pandemic just started. In other words it's purely a paper loss. And in 2021 I believe they got fined by some government for something.
- fomine3 3y ago
  And you don't quote net profit on 2018 and 2019

gjulianm 3y ago

> Removing the tweet limit was a massive improvement The essence of Twitter is precisely that the tweets are short, bite-sized thoughts. It's what drives interactions and engagement, removing the limit shows a lack of understanding of what makes Twitter Twitter. And I assume that most people aren't even using the limits even when they're paying Twitter blue, precisely because they know that it's not how you use Twitter. > Showing view counts is also nice I don't know if they have fixed this, but those view counts were fairly inaccurate. > I don't like the login-walls and selling blue checkmarks, but I understand that the company was financially struggling prior to Elon. The login walls and the blue checkmarks are again a massive mistake that is driving away brands and institutions from the site. Now their statements aren't visible to everyone, and people can't even be sure which one is the official account because the already existing symbol that said "this account is who they say they are" now just means "this account paid for Twitter".

rvnx 3y ago
It seems to be contradicting his statement that the login-walls are going to be removed.
JSavageOne 3y ago
> The essence of Twitter is precisely that the tweets are short, bite-sized thoughts Yea hard disagree there. I spend more time and get more value and depth from reading Twitter threads than random tweets. Twitter threads however are an abomination UI-wise and annoying to write. Longer tweets make more sense. In any case if you prefer shorter content that's fine, but there's nothing to be gained by restricting content type. Give people freedom and let the users decide what they find worthwhile. It's funny to me that everytime I'd mention increasing the tweet length all the replies I'd get would be people telling me I'm wrong and that Twitter should keep the same smaller character limit. It's like vocal people on the internet fear change. > massive mistake Whether it's a mistake comes down to how much revenue Twitter makes in blue checkmark fees vs. how much revenue they lost from advertisers bailing. I'd need to see some hard numbers on that before being able to call it a mistake. From a user perspective however I don't care at all. If anything making that more egalitarian instead of some mythical status symbol makes more sense. For the record I say all of this as someone who hasn't purchased a blue checkmark.

pavlov 3y ago

> "Removing the tweet limit was a massive improvement (something I'd wanted for a decade). Showing view counts is also nice." I used Twitter for a decade, and frustration was the primary emotion associated with the service. I had about a thousand followers but barely any engagement to anything I ever posted. There was never any positive reinforcement to an insignificant little guy like myself. I don't really see how longer tweets or view counts do anything to help with that fundamental problem. (View counts only make it more obvious that nobody cares about my tweets, which is presumably why Twitter had previously hidden them under the engagement metrics UI.) It's a platform dominated by big accounts. As the owner of one of the biggest accounts on Twitter, Musk doesn't experience or see the problem and can't fix it.

amrocha 3y ago
That's not a "fundamental problem", that's just the way it works. Unless you're already popular somewhere else, or your content is very good, strangers don't care about what you have to say. On Twitter or irl or on any other platform. People seem to have forgotten that social media is for friends. If you make friends on Twitter, they'll care about your content because they care about you.
Siecje 3y ago
I agree and I wonder what plan Threads has to fix it.
JSavageOne 3y ago
I'm in the same boat in that I have 1k followers and my tweets generally only get 10-30 views, which is pretty pathetic and seems oddly low. But maybe my content just sucks, idk. In any case being a Twitter influencer is not so important to me.

rchaud 3y ago

Social media besides FB and Tiktok are largely unprofitable. Twitter was no exception, but it was unique in that it had close to no debt and so could get financing fairly easily. With the acquisition, Musk added $13bn to Twitter's debt, and tanked their revenue by chasing off advertisers. Besides the ads for Starlink and SpaceX, every other advertiser on Twitter looks like a Wish.com-caliber brand. If they were struggling before, they're circling the drain now.

zimpenfish 3y ago

> Removing the tweet limit was a massive improvement Sure but Notes (long-form tweets) began public testing in June 2022, 4 months before he took over.

JSavageOne 3y ago
Notes were terrible though - having to click into a separate page that seemed entirely removed from the app. If I recall one couldn't even see replies to them. (at least that's my memory of it, admittedly it's been a while so could be off)