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Your comment is pretty thoughtful, so I’d like to respond in kind. One difference is that we rarely gain or lose jobs based on how we look. Another difference i

Your comment is pretty thoughtful, so I’d like to respond in kind. One difference is that we rarely gain or lose jobs based on how we look. Another difference is that if we were to try to make a living by being a sex worker, we’d find that our income is much less than women, precisely because of the demand for a certain type of body. This realization is the essence of body image issues; to know that no matter what you do, you probably won’t achieve a certain thing in life unless you look a certain way. Worse, the question being ever present in the back of your mind will always get to you, no matter how much you try to shrug it off. I note that this thread started out with a comparison of astrology to racism, and everybody seemed to buy into that. Is it so hard to believe that we’re just as guilty of our own flaws? It’s easy to make fun of a woman who believes the stars predict your future, but we should at least check whether we’re fostering a culture that can predict very accurately whether an ambitious young woman might want to join us as developers. The answer right now tends to be no, and I’m skeptical it’s because their interests are different.

Dalewyn 3y ago
I absolutely agree that looks play a role in how our lives can play out, our (and more broadly between men and women) disagreement is to what extent they play a role and consequently to what extent someone should care about their own looks. I also agree that certain occupations will no doubt place additional biases concerning one's looks. Anyone in the service industry will likely find themselves performing better if they satisfy a certain standard of appearance, in addition to things like mannerism and personality. But we are talking within the context of the tech industry, the jobs of which often find us staring at monitors and screens and clacking away on keyboards more than we do staring at each other. What we can achieve with our craft plays a bigger role than what we look like, here. One's looks has no bearing upon the quality of the code we write, after all, for example. >I note that this thread started out with a comparison of astrology to racism, and everybody seemed to buy into that. I actually disagree with that comparison because I want to believe words still hold meaning. Racism is discrimination, and astrology used as a way to judge someone is also discrimination. Discrimination is never okay. But to call astrology racism only demonstrates one's lack of linguistic understanding. We would also ignore how astrology by itself is just another fun pastime. Making fun of someone who's engaging in astrology is bad because you're making fun of someone who's just enjoying their time. Both men and women would naturally lean towards not mingling with people who don't respect their time and passions.
- benterix 3y ago
  > But we are talking within the context of the tech industry, the jobs of which often find us staring at monitors and screens and clacking away on keyboards more than we do staring at each other. To add to this, I have people in my team I don't know what they look like. And I don't really care. The ones who want to switch their camera on during calls are free to do so, most people don't. So even if I decided I want to discriminate against my female colleagues based on their looks, I wouldn't be able to. Apart from the anecdata, the problem of course exists. Women prefer taller men. And not just women. In business, taller men are more likely to be promoted: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220825-height-discrimination-how-heightism-affects-careers https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220825-height-discrim... In relationships, they are ignored. Fortunately, in tech, where nobody gives a damn what you look like but how good your code is and how cooperative you are, they can feel safe and judged a bit less.

Dalewyn 3y ago

I absolutely agree that looks play a role in how our lives can play out, our (and more broadly between men and women) disagreement is to what extent they play a role and consequently to what extent someone should care about their own looks. I also agree that certain occupations will no doubt place additional biases concerning one's looks. Anyone in the service industry will likely find themselves performing better if they satisfy a certain standard of appearance, in addition to things like mannerism and personality. But we are talking within the context of the tech industry, the jobs of which often find us staring at monitors and screens and clacking away on keyboards more than we do staring at each other. What we can achieve with our craft plays a bigger role than what we look like, here. One's looks has no bearing upon the quality of the code we write, after all, for example. >I note that this thread started out with a comparison of astrology to racism, and everybody seemed to buy into that. I actually disagree with that comparison because I want to believe words still hold meaning. Racism is discrimination, and astrology used as a way to judge someone is also discrimination. Discrimination is never okay. But to call astrology racism only demonstrates one's lack of linguistic understanding. We would also ignore how astrology by itself is just another fun pastime. Making fun of someone who's engaging in astrology is bad because you're making fun of someone who's just enjoying their time. Both men and women would naturally lean towards not mingling with people who don't respect their time and passions.

benterix 3y ago
> But we are talking within the context of the tech industry, the jobs of which often find us staring at monitors and screens and clacking away on keyboards more than we do staring at each other. To add to this, I have people in my team I don't know what they look like. And I don't really care. The ones who want to switch their camera on during calls are free to do so, most people don't. So even if I decided I want to discriminate against my female colleagues based on their looks, I wouldn't be able to. Apart from the anecdata, the problem of course exists. Women prefer taller men. And not just women. In business, taller men are more likely to be promoted: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220825-height-discrimination-how-heightism-affects-careers https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220825-height-discrim... In relationships, they are ignored. Fortunately, in tech, where nobody gives a damn what you look like but how good your code is and how cooperative you are, they can feel safe and judged a bit less.