7 ms·

I worked in various "alternative" industries in my youth. One day I was having an informal diner with people that, in another context, could have been business

I worked in various "alternative" industries in my youth. One day I was having an informal diner with people that, in another context, could have been business partners. One guy was making a killing with an astrology service by phone. He started with those text message based games, that were popular in the 2000'. Remember? "Send 'love' to this number to know if he loves you". And eventually created a full phone call based business with about 200 freelancer astrologists and mediums. He just redirected, and took a cut. He made banks. What he told me that night was that 99% of his customer base were women. "You have to see astrology as porn for women", he said. "Porn public is mostly male, astrology mostly female. Both know it's not real, and most won't spend more than a few minutes on it. But many pay for it even if they would never say they do".

saiya-jin 3y ago
Can attest to this, all folks that I know are into this are women. Even seasoned doctors. And the response? 'Yeah I know its not rational but you know....'. Some form of quick reward system gets invoked in the brain with this apparently. Well still better than looking for tobacco kicks or chocolate instead.
- achenet 3y ago
  ironically enough, a fairly large number of doctors/nurses smoke, at least from what I've observed.
ZephyrBlu 3y ago
I always wonder what the morals and ethics of these kind of business owners is. You're selling a service you know is bullshit and liken to porn. Personally I would not be proud to say I run that business. I would rather that these businesses didn't exist, and so I don't want to contribute to perpetuating them. Of course there's the "fulfilling the market need" type of answer, but that's basically saying you will do anything for money regardless of morals and ethics.
- achenet 3y ago
  > I always wonder what the morals and ethics of these kind of business owners is. > you will do anything for money regardless of morals and ethics. I think you may have answered your own question.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Not 100% sure if the GP and I share the same friend, but I know someone that fits the description exactly. Morals and ethics are all relative. There are people who have absolutely no qualms about running a porn business and there are people who couldn't care less about you or someone else spending your hard earned money on nonsensical information. They would see it as just as valid a business as an author that sells fiction books. Depending on their background this may be understandable, or not. I know a gay guy in Toronto that runs a porn empire, he doesn't care one bit about other people's opinion on it. Given infinite time he would spend it all on watching porn so for him it's a natural to want to be on the supply side, he understands his audience perfectly and the way his business is set up (co-op) gives everybody in it their own share of the take. What I think you'll find is that morality and what is ethical can differ greatly from one person to the next and that it is possible that someone disagrees strongly with you on what is ethical or moral and that all you will end up doing is to argue the case based on your own experience and your own (cultural) background without ever arriving at some idea about what 'absolute' morality or ethics would look like. You can see this very clearly in debates around abortion, war and other controversial subjects. People on both sides of those arguments fervently believe that they (and only they) are in the right and that everybody else is delusional, amoral and un-ethical.
  - andrewflnr 3y ago
    Fiction is already different by being labeled fiction.
akomtu 3y ago
[flagged]
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > That's probably because men tend to use rational thinking, and women tend to use magical or intuitive thinking. Seriously?
  - stefantalpalaru 3y ago
    [dead]
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't start gender flamewars on HN. This thread was ugly enough already. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
jacquesm 3y ago
I think we have a common friend!
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago
  It's a small industry :)
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Smaller than I thought, anyway :) Do we know each other IRL as well? If so drop me a line (mail in profile).
    - BiteCode_dev 3y ago
      I don't think we do :)
honzabe 3y ago
>> "You have to see astrology as porn for women", he said. If that is the case, what is the pleasure they get out of it? Porn triggers the pleasure centers that sex triggers... but astrology, what does that trigger? Sense of security that you "know" your future after reading your horoscope? Or what? Did the guy have any theory about that?
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago
  The analogy is only meant for the consumption pattern and business model. Extrapolating it to anything else than that would be to read too much into an anecdote given at a diner.
- acuozzo 3y ago
  > Sense of security that you "know" your future after reading your horoscope? No, it's comfort in knowing that some(thing|one) else is controlling your destiny. It's not about knowing your future. It's about knowing that there exists a path you're being ushered along.
- halkony 3y ago
  It's worth noting that women experience sexuality differently. You can see it clearly in romance novels. Women don't read smut for the sex scenes, they read it for the sexual tension and character development. Male sexuality is image-based, female sexuality is language-based. To say an astrology hotline is strictly equivalent to an orgasm is silly, but for women the circuitry is very nuanced so I wouldn't be surprised if the same neurons were firing.

saiya-jin 3y ago

Can attest to this, all folks that I know are into this are women. Even seasoned doctors. And the response? 'Yeah I know its not rational but you know....'. Some form of quick reward system gets invoked in the brain with this apparently. Well still better than looking for tobacco kicks or chocolate instead.

achenet 3y ago
ironically enough, a fairly large number of doctors/nurses smoke, at least from what I've observed.

ZephyrBlu 3y ago

I always wonder what the morals and ethics of these kind of business owners is. You're selling a service you know is bullshit and liken to porn. Personally I would not be proud to say I run that business. I would rather that these businesses didn't exist, and so I don't want to contribute to perpetuating them. Of course there's the "fulfilling the market need" type of answer, but that's basically saying you will do anything for money regardless of morals and ethics.

achenet 3y ago
> I always wonder what the morals and ethics of these kind of business owners is. > you will do anything for money regardless of morals and ethics. I think you may have answered your own question.
jacquesm 3y ago
Not 100% sure if the GP and I share the same friend, but I know someone that fits the description exactly. Morals and ethics are all relative. There are people who have absolutely no qualms about running a porn business and there are people who couldn't care less about you or someone else spending your hard earned money on nonsensical information. They would see it as just as valid a business as an author that sells fiction books. Depending on their background this may be understandable, or not. I know a gay guy in Toronto that runs a porn empire, he doesn't care one bit about other people's opinion on it. Given infinite time he would spend it all on watching porn so for him it's a natural to want to be on the supply side, he understands his audience perfectly and the way his business is set up (co-op) gives everybody in it their own share of the take. What I think you'll find is that morality and what is ethical can differ greatly from one person to the next and that it is possible that someone disagrees strongly with you on what is ethical or moral and that all you will end up doing is to argue the case based on your own experience and your own (cultural) background without ever arriving at some idea about what 'absolute' morality or ethics would look like. You can see this very clearly in debates around abortion, war and other controversial subjects. People on both sides of those arguments fervently believe that they (and only they) are in the right and that everybody else is delusional, amoral and un-ethical.
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  Fiction is already different by being labeled fiction.

akomtu 3y ago

[flagged]

jacquesm 3y ago
> That's probably because men tend to use rational thinking, and women tend to use magical or intuitive thinking. Seriously?
- stefantalpalaru 3y ago
  [dead]
dang 3y ago
Please don't start gender flamewars on HN. This thread was ugly enough already. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

jacquesm 3y ago

I think we have a common friend!

BiteCode_dev 3y ago
It's a small industry :)
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Smaller than I thought, anyway :) Do we know each other IRL as well? If so drop me a line (mail in profile).
  - BiteCode_dev 3y ago
    I don't think we do :)

honzabe 3y ago

>> "You have to see astrology as porn for women", he said. If that is the case, what is the pleasure they get out of it? Porn triggers the pleasure centers that sex triggers... but astrology, what does that trigger? Sense of security that you "know" your future after reading your horoscope? Or what? Did the guy have any theory about that?

BiteCode_dev 3y ago
The analogy is only meant for the consumption pattern and business model. Extrapolating it to anything else than that would be to read too much into an anecdote given at a diner.
acuozzo 3y ago
> Sense of security that you "know" your future after reading your horoscope? No, it's comfort in knowing that some(thing|one) else is controlling your destiny. It's not about knowing your future. It's about knowing that there exists a path you're being ushered along.
halkony 3y ago
It's worth noting that women experience sexuality differently. You can see it clearly in romance novels. Women don't read smut for the sex scenes, they read it for the sexual tension and character development. Male sexuality is image-based, female sexuality is language-based. To say an astrology hotline is strictly equivalent to an orgasm is silly, but for women the circuitry is very nuanced so I wouldn't be surprised if the same neurons were firing.