4 ms·

I believe you when you say Houston regulates land use in many ways, and that it's not necessarily a model; but I don't believe it's the same as everywhere else.

by vba616 3y ago

I believe you when you say Houston regulates land use in many ways, and that it's not necessarily a model; but I don't believe it's the same as everywhere else. I don't know much about either Houston or zoning, overall, but I have been there many years ago, to some degree because I was interested in the consequences of libertarian policies, and from what I saw, there was more intermingling of different types of property use than I'm used to seeing in the eastern US. Of course, since I didn't stay there, I am hardly about to evangelize for any of their policies for other cities. I remember when someone asked why I came to their "shitty city", and at another time, putting a bag of fast food down on a table in a cheap motel and their being almost like a tidal wave of roaches in seconds. (Although in fairness the exterminators might have been coincidentally clearing another part of the building at that instant and that could've been what drove them rather than smelling food)

mikem170 3y ago
> more intermingling of different types of property use than I'm used to seeing in the eastern US My experience in Houston was miles of big box stores lining the service roads parallel to I-10, and miles of single-family single-use housing development communities in south Houston. Retail was quite separate from housing, miles away, and traffic could be horrible. The occasional gas station and small plaza with a nail salon and maybe a chinese restaurant was the only thing in between. I feel sorry for the friends I had who grew up there - too far away from anything to walk or bike to, playing in a drainage creek for lack of anything else nearby. Maybe older parts of the city are different? I don't agree with the libertarians if their goal is to allow large developers to profit by building cheap neighborhoods on the outskirts of town and impose restrictions limiting what people who live there can do and build. No apartments can be built on the lot you own, no ADUs, no starter houses, no corner cafes or pubs to socialize at, no other retail areas in the community. Nothing but single family homes, and rules on what kind of lawn and bushes are allowed. Maybe this is libertarianism for large developers only? I grew up in a rust belt city in the north east, and within a few city blocks were two streets full of retail - small supermarkets, drug stores, barbers, a bakery, dry cleaner, dentists and doctors, a library, music shop, a hardware store, pizza places, churches, bus routes to the rest of the city, etc. The pattern I've noticed is that "they don't build them like the used to". Pre-WW2 neighborhoods were not built with the assumption that everyone had cars, so they were more dense and could support businesses within walking distance. For the past several decades single-family HOAs have become popular, where a large developer buys cheap land on the outskirts of town and sells large tracts of cookie cutter housing to the public. Zoning policies make it more difficult for anyone trying to do anything different, and difficult for anyone who is not a large developer. I like the way Japan does zoning. They have separate industrial and commercial areas, but allow triplexes and low-impact retail everywhere in place of single family housing.
- vba616 3y ago
  >Maybe older parts of the city are different? Maybe, but it would be the spread out grid that reflects what people do with fewer constraints, wouldn't it? The downtown center didn't have anything of interest to me that I can recall. Lot of construction going on. I think I spent most of my time there in the ~20 x 10 mile rectangle west of downtown. Like Westheimer and the Katy freeway sound familiar. I didn't have a car, at least the first time I went there. I don't follow you about it being too far to walk or bike or how it didn't intermingle housing with businesses enough. I found a place to stay, and I walked to work, and everywhere else, except if I took the bus. If living by freeway overpasses, and pawn shops, and check cashing storefronts is not your idea of utopia, fine. But then was the ability to walk places ever the issue? I can't identify any differences between your description of Japan and anywhere I've been in the US. I haven't ever been to CA though.
  - mikem170 3y ago
    Haven't you seen the large housing developments in the U.S., all single family homes, hundreds of them, under an HOA, with no other types of housing nor any kind of businesses allowed in the HOA controlled development? [0] [1] I've seen these large developer single-family home neighborhoods all over the south - Charlotte, Atlanta, Houston, Florida, and Phoenix for example. As these cities grew they allowed these large national developers to clear cut hundreds of acres on the outskirts of town and build single family homes as quickly as they could. Traffic and commutes are really tough - everyone in these neighborhoods has to drive everywhere, including kids. Contrast that with older neighborhoods in these same cities, and neighborhoods in older cities in the northeast, which have a lot of mixed use development on bigger streets [2], surrounded by side streets with duplexes and small apartment buildings [3] in addition to single family housing [4]. > I can't identify any differences between your description of Japan and anywhere I've been in the US. Most places in the U.S. do not allow someone to convert their single family house into a duplex or a triplex, nor allow them to open a barber shop or a cafe or other small business in a portion of their house. That's a significant difference and completely changes the character of the neighborhoods. > I haven't ever been to CA though. California is interesting. They've had a problem with people leaving the state due to high housing costs. They are making changes to zoning to increase the supply of housing, allowing single family homes to be converted to triplexes in many places. Cities in other places with the same problem have made or are considering similar changes. [0] https://www.planetizen.com/definition/single-family-zoning https://www.planetizen.com/definition/single-family-zoning [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Tract-housing-with-cul-de-sacs-no-shops-or-cafes-in-sight-and-a-double-carriageway-with_fig7_341760217 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Tract-housing-with-cul-d... [2] https://www.completecommunitiesde.org/planning/landuse/mixed-use-development/ https://www.completecommunitiesde.org/planning/landuse/mixed... [3] https://www.cubesmart.com/blog/city-guides/chicago/chicago-moving-guide/chicago-neighborhood-guide/ https://www.cubesmart.com/blog/city-guides/chicago/chicago-m... [4] https://greatruns.com/pittsburgh-shadyside-and-squirrel-hill/ https://greatruns.com/pittsburgh-shadyside-and-squirrel-hill...

by vba616 3y ago

mikem170 3y ago

> more intermingling of different types of property use than I'm used to seeing in the eastern US My experience in Houston was miles of big box stores lining the service roads parallel to I-10, and miles of single-family single-use housing development communities in south Houston. Retail was quite separate from housing, miles away, and traffic could be horrible. The occasional gas station and small plaza with a nail salon and maybe a chinese restaurant was the only thing in between. I feel sorry for the friends I had who grew up there - too far away from anything to walk or bike to, playing in a drainage creek for lack of anything else nearby. Maybe older parts of the city are different? I don't agree with the libertarians if their goal is to allow large developers to profit by building cheap neighborhoods on the outskirts of town and impose restrictions limiting what people who live there can do and build. No apartments can be built on the lot you own, no ADUs, no starter houses, no corner cafes or pubs to socialize at, no other retail areas in the community. Nothing but single family homes, and rules on what kind of lawn and bushes are allowed. Maybe this is libertarianism for large developers only? I grew up in a rust belt city in the north east, and within a few city blocks were two streets full of retail - small supermarkets, drug stores, barbers, a bakery, dry cleaner, dentists and doctors, a library, music shop, a hardware store, pizza places, churches, bus routes to the rest of the city, etc. The pattern I've noticed is that "they don't build them like the used to". Pre-WW2 neighborhoods were not built with the assumption that everyone had cars, so they were more dense and could support businesses within walking distance. For the past several decades single-family HOAs have become popular, where a large developer buys cheap land on the outskirts of town and sells large tracts of cookie cutter housing to the public. Zoning policies make it more difficult for anyone trying to do anything different, and difficult for anyone who is not a large developer. I like the way Japan does zoning. They have separate industrial and commercial areas, but allow triplexes and low-impact retail everywhere in place of single family housing.

vba616 3y ago
>Maybe older parts of the city are different? Maybe, but it would be the spread out grid that reflects what people do with fewer constraints, wouldn't it? The downtown center didn't have anything of interest to me that I can recall. Lot of construction going on. I think I spent most of my time there in the ~20 x 10 mile rectangle west of downtown. Like Westheimer and the Katy freeway sound familiar. I didn't have a car, at least the first time I went there. I don't follow you about it being too far to walk or bike or how it didn't intermingle housing with businesses enough. I found a place to stay, and I walked to work, and everywhere else, except if I took the bus. If living by freeway overpasses, and pawn shops, and check cashing storefronts is not your idea of utopia, fine. But then was the ability to walk places ever the issue? I can't identify any differences between your description of Japan and anywhere I've been in the US. I haven't ever been to CA though.
- mikem170 3y ago
  Haven't you seen the large housing developments in the U.S., all single family homes, hundreds of them, under an HOA, with no other types of housing nor any kind of businesses allowed in the HOA controlled development? [0] [1] I've seen these large developer single-family home neighborhoods all over the south - Charlotte, Atlanta, Houston, Florida, and Phoenix for example. As these cities grew they allowed these large national developers to clear cut hundreds of acres on the outskirts of town and build single family homes as quickly as they could. Traffic and commutes are really tough - everyone in these neighborhoods has to drive everywhere, including kids. Contrast that with older neighborhoods in these same cities, and neighborhoods in older cities in the northeast, which have a lot of mixed use development on bigger streets [2], surrounded by side streets with duplexes and small apartment buildings [3] in addition to single family housing [4]. > I can't identify any differences between your description of Japan and anywhere I've been in the US. Most places in the U.S. do not allow someone to convert their single family house into a duplex or a triplex, nor allow them to open a barber shop or a cafe or other small business in a portion of their house. That's a significant difference and completely changes the character of the neighborhoods. > I haven't ever been to CA though. California is interesting. They've had a problem with people leaving the state due to high housing costs. They are making changes to zoning to increase the supply of housing, allowing single family homes to be converted to triplexes in many places. Cities in other places with the same problem have made or are considering similar changes. [0] https://www.planetizen.com/definition/single-family-zoning https://www.planetizen.com/definition/single-family-zoning [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Tract-housing-with-cul-de-sacs-no-shops-or-cafes-in-sight-and-a-double-carriageway-with_fig7_341760217 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Tract-housing-with-cul-d... [2] https://www.completecommunitiesde.org/planning/landuse/mixed-use-development/ https://www.completecommunitiesde.org/planning/landuse/mixed... [3] https://www.cubesmart.com/blog/city-guides/chicago/chicago-moving-guide/chicago-neighborhood-guide/ https://www.cubesmart.com/blog/city-guides/chicago/chicago-m... [4] https://greatruns.com/pittsburgh-shadyside-and-squirrel-hill/ https://greatruns.com/pittsburgh-shadyside-and-squirrel-hill...