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Your conspiracy theory sensor is set a bit too sensitively. :) This isn't Oracle acting malicious. It's a mistake.

by chungy 3y ago

politelemon 3y ago
Having experienced oracle's actions over the past few decades, there is no line between conspiracy and reality.
oblio 3y ago
It's not a conspiracy and they're probably right to be a little paranoid. Oracle buried OpenOffice and Hudson just out of spite. Especially for Hudson I was watching it happen almost day by day when it occurred.
- dale_glass 3y ago
  What spite you mean? I seem to recall trademark troubles with Oracle, which led to everyone forking and starting Jenkins. But I don't think I've heard of Oracle intentionally burying a product.
  - oblio 3y ago
    > I seem to recall trademark troubles with Oracle, which led to everyone forking and starting Jenkins. Well, you have a keyword in there, "everyone". All but 1 major contributor (not even the main contributor and definitely not the project architect and lead) disagreed with their decision. Oracle persisted with the help of that major contributor - an Oracle employee, BTW - and while Jenkins was being created, they did not want to contribute and instead tried to create a competing effort over at the Eclipse Foundation. Jenkins was receiving 95% of the contributions because, as you said, "everyone" was helping out, while Hudson was slowly dying on the vine at the Eclipse Foundation, and Oracle was putting out cheerful release announcements for it <<for years>> even though anyone who checked the commit logs could clearly see that Hudson was dying. Oracle kept pushing with Hudson internally for quite a few years but even they gave up and buried Hudson a while ago. Similar story with OpenOffice. They <<really, really>> wanted control so they forced everyone else to force through their actions and OpenOffice basically had the same face, Apache Foundation, death. Though OpenOffice is more of a zombie these days, I don't think it's been shut down completely like Hudson.
  - alfiedotwtf 3y ago
    MySQL has entered the chat
  - oblio 3y ago
    The shame!!! I checked now and Hudson seems to be completely gone: https://git.eclipse.org/c/hudson/ https://git.eclipse.org/c/hudson/ The Eclipse Foundation has taken down even the Git repo, let alone the website. DamageControl, the original inspiration for Hudson/Jenkins still has a repo on GitHub: https://github.com/codehaus/damagecontrol https://github.com/codehaus/damagecontrol So a super small toy CI server from 18+ years ago still has its source available yet Hudson, while the OG big CI server is completely gone from the internet, including Oracle's modifications. Kind of shameful from the Eclipse Foundation, especially after the initial boasting: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Eclipse-Foundation-announces-Hudson-3-0-1790687.html http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Eclipse-Foundation-an...
    - dale_glass 3y ago
      It looks like it was taken down in June 2021 after years of nothing happening and nobody really noticed.
      - oblio 3y ago
        Still shameful that they didn't just put a copy on Github. 5 minutes of "work" and we could have kept a bit of internet history around.
        dale_glass 3y ago
        True, but since it's git, anybody can just take their local checkout and push it to github.
        oblio 3y ago
        If anyone still has it...
- chungy 3y ago
  You've got it completely backwards with regard to OpenOffice. LibreOffice was prematurely forked from it for the sole reason that "Oracle owns it now"; what played out was that Oracle managed to relicense the entire suite to be under a single license (the Apache 2 license) while LibreOffice, to this day, continues with the triple-licensed mess that Sun had implemented. LibreOffice got popular, OpenOffice died off; Oracle handed it over to the Apache Software Foundation for it to die.
  - oblio 3y ago
    1. Why does it matter LibreOffice is triple-licensed, though? 2. Why do you think LibreOffice became popular? Hint: most of its contributors moved over from OpenOffice because few people trusted Oracle. Trust matters.
bayindirh 3y ago
When it comes to Oracle, no sensor can be set to "too sensitive".
dredmorbius 3y ago
I was addressing the question of why the issue itself might gain attention on HN, and be worthy of deeper investigation, particularly in light of a rather snarky "slow news day" sibling response to the OP. Oracle deserves a very close watch, and I've strong suspicions that overreliance on Virtualbox will end in tears. It's not a belief that the cause is malice, it's a suspicion that it could be, or might portend same.

Your conspiracy theory sensor is set a bit too sensitively. :) This isn't Oracle acting malicious. It's a mistake.

by chungy 3y ago

Your conspiracy theory sensor is set a bit too sensitively. :) This isn't Oracle acting malicious. It's a mistake.

politelemon 3y ago

Having experienced oracle's actions over the past few decades, there is no line between conspiracy and reality.

oblio 3y ago

It's not a conspiracy and they're probably right to be a little paranoid. Oracle buried OpenOffice and Hudson just out of spite. Especially for Hudson I was watching it happen almost day by day when it occurred.

dale_glass 3y ago
What spite you mean? I seem to recall trademark troubles with Oracle, which led to everyone forking and starting Jenkins. But I don't think I've heard of Oracle intentionally burying a product.
- oblio 3y ago
  > I seem to recall trademark troubles with Oracle, which led to everyone forking and starting Jenkins. Well, you have a keyword in there, "everyone". All but 1 major contributor (not even the main contributor and definitely not the project architect and lead) disagreed with their decision. Oracle persisted with the help of that major contributor - an Oracle employee, BTW - and while Jenkins was being created, they did not want to contribute and instead tried to create a competing effort over at the Eclipse Foundation. Jenkins was receiving 95% of the contributions because, as you said, "everyone" was helping out, while Hudson was slowly dying on the vine at the Eclipse Foundation, and Oracle was putting out cheerful release announcements for it <<for years>> even though anyone who checked the commit logs could clearly see that Hudson was dying. Oracle kept pushing with Hudson internally for quite a few years but even they gave up and buried Hudson a while ago. Similar story with OpenOffice. They <<really, really>> wanted control so they forced everyone else to force through their actions and OpenOffice basically had the same face, Apache Foundation, death. Though OpenOffice is more of a zombie these days, I don't think it's been shut down completely like Hudson.
- alfiedotwtf 3y ago
  MySQL has entered the chat
- oblio 3y ago
  The shame!!! I checked now and Hudson seems to be completely gone: https://git.eclipse.org/c/hudson/ https://git.eclipse.org/c/hudson/ The Eclipse Foundation has taken down even the Git repo, let alone the website. DamageControl, the original inspiration for Hudson/Jenkins still has a repo on GitHub: https://github.com/codehaus/damagecontrol https://github.com/codehaus/damagecontrol So a super small toy CI server from 18+ years ago still has its source available yet Hudson, while the OG big CI server is completely gone from the internet, including Oracle's modifications. Kind of shameful from the Eclipse Foundation, especially after the initial boasting: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Eclipse-Foundation-announces-Hudson-3-0-1790687.html http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Eclipse-Foundation-an...
  - dale_glass 3y ago
    It looks like it was taken down in June 2021 after years of nothing happening and nobody really noticed.
    - oblio 3y ago
      Still shameful that they didn't just put a copy on Github. 5 minutes of "work" and we could have kept a bit of internet history around.
      - dale_glass 3y ago
        True, but since it's git, anybody can just take their local checkout and push it to github.
        oblio 3y ago
        If anyone still has it...
chungy 3y ago
You've got it completely backwards with regard to OpenOffice. LibreOffice was prematurely forked from it for the sole reason that "Oracle owns it now"; what played out was that Oracle managed to relicense the entire suite to be under a single license (the Apache 2 license) while LibreOffice, to this day, continues with the triple-licensed mess that Sun had implemented. LibreOffice got popular, OpenOffice died off; Oracle handed it over to the Apache Software Foundation for it to die.
- oblio 3y ago
  1. Why does it matter LibreOffice is triple-licensed, though? 2. Why do you think LibreOffice became popular? Hint: most of its contributors moved over from OpenOffice because few people trusted Oracle. Trust matters.

bayindirh 3y ago

When it comes to Oracle, no sensor can be set to "too sensitive".

dredmorbius 3y ago

I was addressing the question of why the issue itself might gain attention on HN, and be worthy of deeper investigation, particularly in light of a rather snarky "slow news day" sibling response to the OP. Oracle deserves a very close watch, and I've strong suspicions that overreliance on Virtualbox will end in tears. It's not a belief that the cause is malice, it's a suspicion that it could be, or might portend same.