4 ms·

I always love getting my tarot cards read. Do I believe it has special knowledge of the universe? Absolutely not. Does it get my thinking creatively and criti

by drooby 3y ago

I always love getting my tarot cards read. Do I believe it has special knowledge of the universe? Absolutely not. Does it get my thinking creatively and critically about the personal story that I have with my self? Yes. And that has some value.

luc4sdreyer 3y ago
Of the atheist STEM postgrad degree people I know that love to talk about astrology/tarot, they usually retreat to this type to defence: it's a useful tool for introspection. Sure. But then if I ask them to admit that believing in it is unscientific, the response is something along the lines of "well it could be true". They know there's no evidence for it, but they're probably afraid of offending close friends that actually believe.
- maxbond 3y ago
  Many human experiences are better understood by means that are not scientific. Life is full of aesthetic, moral, spiritual, and even unanswerable questions. Science is incredible and beautiful and profound - but it's not everything. I can't remember what TV show I heard this on, but I like it; "the true sweetness of wine is... but one flavor." (ETA: The show was Marco Polo.)
  - YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
    How do you know that you're actually "understanding" these experiences and not just making up whatever confirms your preconceptions?
    - pyinstallwoes 3y ago
      How do you know you aren't the person in the Chinese Room? [^1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room
    - ehnto 3y ago
      I guess it wouldn't matter, a lot of the human experience is dogmatic. It's not necessarily wrong to experience life through minor misunderstandings, especially ones that make life more bearable. I am a little jealous of people who believe they go to heaven for one example. The experience of their entire life may be enriched by that, whereas I gain nothing by not believing in it.
    - maxbond 3y ago
      I don't mean to be factitious, but I'm gunnuh answer your question with a question. How do you know someone loves you? Because everyone I've ever met has been convinced certain people love them or don't, it's tremendously meaningful to their lives, and none of them used science to do it.
  - yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
    This is essentially the kremlin propaganda defence. “It’s all so complicated! Nobody could really know the truth!” Come on.
    - maxbond 3y ago
      If I were claiming that something which was knowable as a fact, wasn't, then sure. If I'm claiming that like, tarot helped me develop a spiritual relationship with the world (this isn't the case for me personally), then no, that isn't propaganda. I sure you can see a substantive difference in these claims.
- mistercheph 3y ago
  What is your standard of evidence for the usefulness of a particular mode of analysis? Doomsday weapon, perhaps?
- arthur2e5 3y ago
  White noise can occasionally make images seem sharper[1] or enhance perception of pure tones.[2] (Tinfoil hat on) Astrology and tarot might be doing the same thing for introspection. Confirmation bias will at least make you more sure about something, and… indeed people do these stuff to feel more sure about themselves. [1] https://library.imaging.org/admin/apis/public/api/ist/website/downloadArticle/jist/55/3/art00007 https://library.imaging.org/admin/apis/public/api/ist/websit..., https://www.spij.jp/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/BSPIJ24_019.pdf https://www.spij.jp/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/BSPIJ24_019.p... [2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191112142926.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191112142926.h...
PartiallyTyped 3y ago
In a similar vein I like to observe myself and my thoughts when it comes to tarot cards. I know they are not real, but by focusing on my own cognitive biases and wishes I can extract more information about my subconscious mind and potentially solve my problems.
- uoaei 3y ago
  This is the entire point of divination tools -- to bring something of yourself into it so that the interaction between the reading and your reactions to it help to inform your perspective. I read I Ching but it's the same kind of thing. Astrology makes no sense to me because there is no interaction as I describe, just directives. There's no reason to believe they don't equally apply to everyone[1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect
LinXitoW 3y ago
I have Tarot cards exactly for this reason. It's also just a fun party game. But of all the esoteric things, astrology seems the most boring to me, because it's static and determined just once when you're born. It feels like there's just no interaction involved.
jeffhuys 3y ago
Exactly. It's just a tool to visualize your own intuition. I have my own set of cards. I lay them, and see what I see. And of course, it's just me making up a story, but it has significance to me, and helps me in understanding myself better. It's not hard to understand, yet, people find it "weird". I guess it ties in with the still-prevalent thought that mental wellbeing is something you don't really talk about. It's shameful to some people to say you're depressed, or seeing a psychologist. Tarot AND psychologists have helped me tremendously in my depression. Tarot in particular has helped me far more than any psychologist could, just because it makes me understand where I am, what I'm stuck thinking about, and how to move forward.

by drooby 3y ago

luc4sdreyer 3y ago

Of the atheist STEM postgrad degree people I know that love to talk about astrology/tarot, they usually retreat to this type to defence: it's a useful tool for introspection. Sure. But then if I ask them to admit that believing in it is unscientific, the response is something along the lines of "well it could be true". They know there's no evidence for it, but they're probably afraid of offending close friends that actually believe.

maxbond 3y ago
Many human experiences are better understood by means that are not scientific. Life is full of aesthetic, moral, spiritual, and even unanswerable questions. Science is incredible and beautiful and profound - but it's not everything. I can't remember what TV show I heard this on, but I like it; "the true sweetness of wine is... but one flavor." (ETA: The show was Marco Polo.)
- YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
  How do you know that you're actually "understanding" these experiences and not just making up whatever confirms your preconceptions?
  - pyinstallwoes 3y ago
    How do you know you aren't the person in the Chinese Room? [^1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room
  - ehnto 3y ago
    I guess it wouldn't matter, a lot of the human experience is dogmatic. It's not necessarily wrong to experience life through minor misunderstandings, especially ones that make life more bearable. I am a little jealous of people who believe they go to heaven for one example. The experience of their entire life may be enriched by that, whereas I gain nothing by not believing in it.
  - maxbond 3y ago
    I don't mean to be factitious, but I'm gunnuh answer your question with a question. How do you know someone loves you? Because everyone I've ever met has been convinced certain people love them or don't, it's tremendously meaningful to their lives, and none of them used science to do it.
- yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
  This is essentially the kremlin propaganda defence. “It’s all so complicated! Nobody could really know the truth!” Come on.
  - maxbond 3y ago
    If I were claiming that something which was knowable as a fact, wasn't, then sure. If I'm claiming that like, tarot helped me develop a spiritual relationship with the world (this isn't the case for me personally), then no, that isn't propaganda. I sure you can see a substantive difference in these claims.
mistercheph 3y ago
What is your standard of evidence for the usefulness of a particular mode of analysis? Doomsday weapon, perhaps?
arthur2e5 3y ago
White noise can occasionally make images seem sharper[1] or enhance perception of pure tones.[2] (Tinfoil hat on) Astrology and tarot might be doing the same thing for introspection. Confirmation bias will at least make you more sure about something, and… indeed people do these stuff to feel more sure about themselves. [1] https://library.imaging.org/admin/apis/public/api/ist/website/downloadArticle/jist/55/3/art00007 https://library.imaging.org/admin/apis/public/api/ist/websit..., https://www.spij.jp/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/BSPIJ24_019.pdf https://www.spij.jp/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/BSPIJ24_019.p... [2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191112142926.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191112142926.h...

PartiallyTyped 3y ago

In a similar vein I like to observe myself and my thoughts when it comes to tarot cards. I know they are not real, but by focusing on my own cognitive biases and wishes I can extract more information about my subconscious mind and potentially solve my problems.

uoaei 3y ago
This is the entire point of divination tools -- to bring something of yourself into it so that the interaction between the reading and your reactions to it help to inform your perspective. I read I Ching but it's the same kind of thing. Astrology makes no sense to me because there is no interaction as I describe, just directives. There's no reason to believe they don't equally apply to everyone[1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect

LinXitoW 3y ago

I have Tarot cards exactly for this reason. It's also just a fun party game. But of all the esoteric things, astrology seems the most boring to me, because it's static and determined just once when you're born. It feels like there's just no interaction involved.

jeffhuys 3y ago

Exactly. It's just a tool to visualize your own intuition. I have my own set of cards. I lay them, and see what I see. And of course, it's just me making up a story, but it has significance to me, and helps me in understanding myself better. It's not hard to understand, yet, people find it "weird". I guess it ties in with the still-prevalent thought that mental wellbeing is something you don't really talk about. It's shameful to some people to say you're depressed, or seeing a psychologist. Tarot AND psychologists have helped me tremendously in my depression. Tarot in particular has helped me far more than any psychologist could, just because it makes me understand where I am, what I'm stuck thinking about, and how to move forward.