5 ms·

Context? Why is this significant?

by pimlottc 3y ago

booi 3y ago
Slow news day?
- accrual 3y ago
  I'm all for more slow news days.
- ForOldHack 3y ago
  They are all slow news days now. I have not been on Reddit for a good two weeks, I still hate it more than I miss it.
dredmorbius 3y ago
Virtualbox has been controlled by Oracle since that company's acquisition of the former Sun Microsystems in 2010. Oracle has a remarkably chequered past regarding its hosting of Free Software projects: OpenOffice, OpenSolaris, Mysql, and AFAIR several Apache projects, off the top of my head. Virtualbox itself has been somewhat closed down / restricted over the course of Oracle's tenure. This could well be an early indication of further such moves on Oracle's part. That's very decidedly not clear at the moment, but would well bear further observation.
- chungy 3y ago
  Your conspiracy theory sensor is set a bit too sensitively. :) This isn't Oracle acting malicious. It's a mistake.
  - politelemon 3y ago
    Having experienced oracle's actions over the past few decades, there is no line between conspiracy and reality.
  - oblio 3y ago
    It's not a conspiracy and they're probably right to be a little paranoid. Oracle buried OpenOffice and Hudson just out of spite. Especially for Hudson I was watching it happen almost day by day when it occurred.
    - dale_glass 3y ago
      What spite you mean? I seem to recall trademark troubles with Oracle, which led to everyone forking and starting Jenkins. But I don't think I've heard of Oracle intentionally burying a product.
      - oblio 3y ago
        > I seem to recall trademark troubles with Oracle, which led to everyone forking and starting Jenkins. Well, you have a keyword in there, "everyone". All but 1 major contributor (not even the main contributor and definitely not the project architect and lead) disagreed with their decision. Oracle persisted with the help of that major contributor - an Oracle employee, BTW - and while Jenkins was being created, they did not want to contribute and instead tried to create a competing effort over at the Eclipse Foundation. Jenkins was receiving 95% of the contributions because, as you said, "everyone" was helping out, while Hudson was slowly dying on the vine at the Eclipse Foundation, and Oracle was putting out cheerful release announcements for it <<for years>> even though anyone who checked the commit logs could clearly see that Hudson was dying. Oracle kept pushing with Hudson internally for quite a few years but even they gave up and buried Hudson a while ago. Similar story with OpenOffice. They <<really, really>> wanted control so they forced everyone else to force through their actions and OpenOffice basically had the same face, Apache Foundation, death. Though OpenOffice is more of a zombie these days, I don't think it's been shut down completely like Hudson.
      - alfiedotwtf 3y ago
        MySQL has entered the chat
      - oblio 3y ago
        The shame!!! I checked now and Hudson seems to be completely gone: https://git.eclipse.org/c/hudson/ https://git.eclipse.org/c/hudson/ The Eclipse Foundation has taken down even the Git repo, let alone the website. DamageControl, the original inspiration for Hudson/Jenkins still has a repo on GitHub: https://github.com/codehaus/damagecontrol https://github.com/codehaus/damagecontrol So a super small toy CI server from 18+ years ago still has its source available yet Hudson, while the OG big CI server is completely gone from the internet, including Oracle's modifications. Kind of shameful from the Eclipse Foundation, especially after the initial boasting: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Eclipse-Foundation-announces-Hudson-3-0-1790687.html http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Eclipse-Foundation-an...
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    When it comes to Oracle, no sensor can be set to "too sensitive".
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    I was addressing the question of why the issue itself might gain attention on HN, and be worthy of deeper investigation, particularly in light of a rather snarky "slow news day" sibling response to the OP. Oracle deserves a very close watch, and I've strong suspicions that overreliance on Virtualbox will end in tears. It's not a belief that the cause is malice, it's a suspicion that it could be, or might portend same.
- DropInIn 3y ago
  Just an FYI it's "checkered", as in a checker board. Chequered would be for cheques, as in pay cheque.
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/chequered https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/chequ...> <https://sapling.ai/usage/checkered-vs-chequered https://sapling.ai/usage/checkered-vs-chequered>
    - DropInIn 3y ago
      Ah an old world vs new world linguistic issue. Failure accepted.
- yrro 3y ago
  > Virtualbox itself has been somewhat closed down / restricted over the course of Oracle's tenure. How so? VirtualBox was GPL-licensed before the acquisition and it remains so today. The extensions pack was always under a proprietary license.
  - omnibrain 3y ago
    > The extensions pack was always under a proprietary license. Yes, while I'm not sure if the actual terms of the license changed, enforcement changed very much. With SUN ist was "Of course, you can personally install it on your work computer and use it for work. Only if you deploy it to your fleet of computers please pay us." https://web.archive.org/web/20100204053823/https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Licensing_FAQ https://web.archive.org/web/20100204053823/https://www.virtu...
    - nvm0n1 3y ago
      Maybe that approach to licensing is why Sun ran out of money and had to sell itself?
      - thrawaway3292 3y ago
        I doubt VirtualBox was even a line item on Sun's financials, so I really doubt that had anything to do with their failure.
        nvm0n1 3y ago
        What I meant is, a lackadaisical approach to billing and asking for money was common at Sun for everything software related, same thing for Java which was definitely a line item.
        dredmorbius 3y ago
        Hardware was Sun's revenue model. Cost of revenue for penny-ante fluff would have been orders of magnitude greater than actual revenue. Goodwill and other benefits substantively greater. Blaming Sun's demise on Virtualbox largess is ludicrous on its face.

Context? Why is this significant?

booi 3y ago

Slow news day?

accrual 3y ago
I'm all for more slow news days.
ForOldHack 3y ago
They are all slow news days now. I have not been on Reddit for a good two weeks, I still hate it more than I miss it.

dredmorbius 3y ago

Virtualbox has been controlled by Oracle since that company's acquisition of the former Sun Microsystems in 2010. Oracle has a remarkably chequered past regarding its hosting of Free Software projects: OpenOffice, OpenSolaris, Mysql, and AFAIR several Apache projects, off the top of my head. Virtualbox itself has been somewhat closed down / restricted over the course of Oracle's tenure. This could well be an early indication of further such moves on Oracle's part. That's very decidedly not clear at the moment, but would well bear further observation.

chungy 3y ago
Your conspiracy theory sensor is set a bit too sensitively. :) This isn't Oracle acting malicious. It's a mistake.
- politelemon 3y ago
  Having experienced oracle's actions over the past few decades, there is no line between conspiracy and reality.
- oblio 3y ago
  It's not a conspiracy and they're probably right to be a little paranoid. Oracle buried OpenOffice and Hudson just out of spite. Especially for Hudson I was watching it happen almost day by day when it occurred.
  - dale_glass 3y ago
    What spite you mean? I seem to recall trademark troubles with Oracle, which led to everyone forking and starting Jenkins. But I don't think I've heard of Oracle intentionally burying a product.
    - oblio 3y ago
      > I seem to recall trademark troubles with Oracle, which led to everyone forking and starting Jenkins. Well, you have a keyword in there, "everyone". All but 1 major contributor (not even the main contributor and definitely not the project architect and lead) disagreed with their decision. Oracle persisted with the help of that major contributor - an Oracle employee, BTW - and while Jenkins was being created, they did not want to contribute and instead tried to create a competing effort over at the Eclipse Foundation. Jenkins was receiving 95% of the contributions because, as you said, "everyone" was helping out, while Hudson was slowly dying on the vine at the Eclipse Foundation, and Oracle was putting out cheerful release announcements for it <<for years>> even though anyone who checked the commit logs could clearly see that Hudson was dying. Oracle kept pushing with Hudson internally for quite a few years but even they gave up and buried Hudson a while ago. Similar story with OpenOffice. They <<really, really>> wanted control so they forced everyone else to force through their actions and OpenOffice basically had the same face, Apache Foundation, death. Though OpenOffice is more of a zombie these days, I don't think it's been shut down completely like Hudson.
    - alfiedotwtf 3y ago
      MySQL has entered the chat
    - oblio 3y ago
      The shame!!! I checked now and Hudson seems to be completely gone: https://git.eclipse.org/c/hudson/ https://git.eclipse.org/c/hudson/ The Eclipse Foundation has taken down even the Git repo, let alone the website. DamageControl, the original inspiration for Hudson/Jenkins still has a repo on GitHub: https://github.com/codehaus/damagecontrol https://github.com/codehaus/damagecontrol So a super small toy CI server from 18+ years ago still has its source available yet Hudson, while the OG big CI server is completely gone from the internet, including Oracle's modifications. Kind of shameful from the Eclipse Foundation, especially after the initial boasting: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Eclipse-Foundation-announces-Hudson-3-0-1790687.html http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Eclipse-Foundation-an...
- bayindirh 3y ago
  When it comes to Oracle, no sensor can be set to "too sensitive".
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  I was addressing the question of why the issue itself might gain attention on HN, and be worthy of deeper investigation, particularly in light of a rather snarky "slow news day" sibling response to the OP. Oracle deserves a very close watch, and I've strong suspicions that overreliance on Virtualbox will end in tears. It's not a belief that the cause is malice, it's a suspicion that it could be, or might portend same.
DropInIn 3y ago
Just an FYI it's "checkered", as in a checker board. Chequered would be for cheques, as in pay cheque.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/chequered https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/chequ...> <https://sapling.ai/usage/checkered-vs-chequered https://sapling.ai/usage/checkered-vs-chequered>
  - DropInIn 3y ago
    Ah an old world vs new world linguistic issue. Failure accepted.
yrro 3y ago
> Virtualbox itself has been somewhat closed down / restricted over the course of Oracle's tenure. How so? VirtualBox was GPL-licensed before the acquisition and it remains so today. The extensions pack was always under a proprietary license.
- omnibrain 3y ago
  > The extensions pack was always under a proprietary license. Yes, while I'm not sure if the actual terms of the license changed, enforcement changed very much. With SUN ist was "Of course, you can personally install it on your work computer and use it for work. Only if you deploy it to your fleet of computers please pay us." https://web.archive.org/web/20100204053823/https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Licensing_FAQ https://web.archive.org/web/20100204053823/https://www.virtu...
  - nvm0n1 3y ago
    Maybe that approach to licensing is why Sun ran out of money and had to sell itself?
    - thrawaway3292 3y ago
      I doubt VirtualBox was even a line item on Sun's financials, so I really doubt that had anything to do with their failure.
      - nvm0n1 3y ago
        What I meant is, a lackadaisical approach to billing and asking for money was common at Sun for everything software related, same thing for Java which was definitely a line item.
        dredmorbius 3y ago
        Hardware was Sun's revenue model. Cost of revenue for penny-ante fluff would have been orders of magnitude greater than actual revenue. Goodwill and other benefits substantively greater. Blaming Sun's demise on Virtualbox largess is ludicrous on its face.