4 ms·

I hate Newsom but I think this is a good idea. Education and support should be 100% free for those in the more difficult economic situations.

ecf 3y ago
I don’t agree. My parents are low middle class. We didn’t qualify for any financial aid and they were tasked with trying to find a way to send both my sister and I to college which they couldn’t afford. So what did we do? Take out a bunch of loans. Good thing I got a decent job that can pay for them. Too bad for my sister who had a masters and is making $35k as a teacher in Tennessee which is barely more than minimum wage.
- tester457 3y ago
  I think it should be free because of stories like yours. It shouldn't be a requirement to be saddled with debt to participate in society.
  - bagacrap 3y ago
    I agree it should cost less, but I don't understand why everyone seems to think the government (taxpayers) should be paying these tuitions. The problem is that tuition is ridiculous.
    - hollandheese 3y ago
      You do understand that the state won’t be paying individual tuition to state-run universities. They’ll just fund their actual operations.
      - bagacrap 3y ago
        No, that's not clear. I'm sure the state (and other) universities would say that tuition already funds "actual operations". What guidelines do bureaucrats inflict on universities to ensure there are no fake operations sucking up funds? Can you point me to the specific state funding proposals you're talking about?
  - slt2021 3y ago
    Problem with free tuitition is it only incentivizes cash grab from educational institutions. There will be gazillion universities overnight similar to coding bootcamps - all competing for state funded tuition without any regard to quality
    - andrekandre 3y ago
      > Problem with free tuitition is it only incentivizes cash grab from educational institutions. that assumes that private schools would be the beneficiaries no? my understanding is that "free college" usually applies to public institutions (state college/universities)...?
      - slt2021 3y ago
        State bureaucrats will rush and charter gazillion piss poor grade universities to “meet increased demand” - what difference that would make? Problem is with American University itself, its overbloated mandate, abysmal efficiency, and dysfunctional bureacracy that has very little to do with actual education and its outcomes
        andrekandre 3y ago
        > Problem is with American University itself, its overbloated mandate, abysmal efficiency, and dysfunctional bureacracy that has very little to do with actual education and its outcomes was it always like this though? from what i've heard it didn't always used to be like that....
    - hollandheese 3y ago
      States don’t pay the tuition for private K-12 students and they won’t pay the tuition for private colleges.
      - slt2021 3y ago
        Nor compare the quality of average public school with average private school? The difference is day and night, especially in academics. Public schools became sort of free daycare. I fear public universities will become something like that plus job program for bureacrats unemployable anywhere else (just like with any state government)
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > my sister who had a masters and is making $35k as a teacher Tennessee If it's a public school, those loans should begin falling off after five years and be forgiven after ten [1]. [1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/teacher-student-loan-forgiveness/ https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/teacher-student...
  - j45 3y ago
    Still not ideal.
    - throwaway5959 3y ago
      Nothing is ideal. There’s always a compromise. I think supporting foster kids is a good idea.
      - j45 3y ago
        It’s excellent. Just further down the education funnel and accessibility will be relative to navigating the barriers in K-12
  - musicale 3y ago
    IIRC PSLF originally required not ten years of elapsed time but rather 120 sequential on-time payments in full under a qualifying repayment plan, where "on-time" was determined by the loan servicer. And you had to keep working beyond that time until the application was approved (most were rejected) and processed (probably as quickly as government departments usually operate.) Loan servicers had every incentive to thwart this by declaring payments late or incomplete, steering borrowers into forbearance or non-qualifying repayment plans, etc. As you can imagine, fewer than 1% of applicants successfully had their loans discharged. They've been trying to fix things since the pandemic for people who consolidate to a federal direct loan.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > 120 sequential on-time payments in full under a specific repayment plan The sequential requirement has been removed, right?
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  So you got a good paying job and had supportive parents. I don’t get why you’re complaining, at least you had parents. What is this program costing you?
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  > Too bad for my sister who had a masters and is making $35k as a teacher in Tennessee which is barely more than minimum wage. This is the real crime.
  - ecf 3y ago
    It’s always depressing when we talk about the latest developments in minimum wage and how a day one burger flipper at an In and Out in California is making just as much as someone with 6 years of schooling and responsibility for teaching the next generation. Oh and that’s not even considering how much of her own $$$ is needed to successfully supply a classroom and how barely any is tax deductible. Her experiences almost single handedly altered my political viewpoints and who I vote for.
    - throwaway5959 3y ago
      Who are you voting for that will raise wages for teachers? Or are you looking to cut wages for burger flippers.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        I honestly don't know. I'm in California and "let's not make our teachers minimum wage slaves" wasnt on any candidate's platform from what I researched. Let alone on any of the viable candidates. If no one represents my ideals, what can I do?
        bombcar 3y ago
        California is the state most likely to be able to fix it, simply get a proposition passed that says: > No administrator of any education system may be paid more than twice the lowest-paid teacher, no matter how many hours that teacher worked during the school year. A teacher is anyone who is responsible or in charge of children or students. Political salaries are deemed administrative of the educational system that is under the purview of that elected body.
- acer589 3y ago
  And those loans should be forgiven. Is this your position on anything becoming easier over time? "We shouldn't have ramps, my grandpa had to push grandma's wheelchair up the steps"?
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    Are you saying that under current law the loans should be forgiven, or that we should have laws under which those loans are forgiven? I believe it's possible to have loans forgiven if you work in certain industries (like public school teaching) for enough years, but it's not a few years — more like a decade or two. If you think someone who gets a masters shouldn't have to pay back their loans, I'd counter that such a policy would be a wealth transfer from taxpayers to universities. Masters degrees are almost always a negative ROI endeavor, once opportunity cost is factored in. We shouldn't be subsidizing them even further, which will lead people to get even more of them, given how little they add to future earnings.

ecf 3y ago

I don’t agree. My parents are low middle class. We didn’t qualify for any financial aid and they were tasked with trying to find a way to send both my sister and I to college which they couldn’t afford. So what did we do? Take out a bunch of loans. Good thing I got a decent job that can pay for them. Too bad for my sister who had a masters and is making $35k as a teacher in Tennessee which is barely more than minimum wage.

tester457 3y ago
I think it should be free because of stories like yours. It shouldn't be a requirement to be saddled with debt to participate in society.
- bagacrap 3y ago
  I agree it should cost less, but I don't understand why everyone seems to think the government (taxpayers) should be paying these tuitions. The problem is that tuition is ridiculous.
  - hollandheese 3y ago
    You do understand that the state won’t be paying individual tuition to state-run universities. They’ll just fund their actual operations.
    - bagacrap 3y ago
      No, that's not clear. I'm sure the state (and other) universities would say that tuition already funds "actual operations". What guidelines do bureaucrats inflict on universities to ensure there are no fake operations sucking up funds? Can you point me to the specific state funding proposals you're talking about?
- slt2021 3y ago
  Problem with free tuitition is it only incentivizes cash grab from educational institutions. There will be gazillion universities overnight similar to coding bootcamps - all competing for state funded tuition without any regard to quality
  - andrekandre 3y ago
    > Problem with free tuitition is it only incentivizes cash grab from educational institutions. that assumes that private schools would be the beneficiaries no? my understanding is that "free college" usually applies to public institutions (state college/universities)...?
    - slt2021 3y ago
      State bureaucrats will rush and charter gazillion piss poor grade universities to “meet increased demand” - what difference that would make? Problem is with American University itself, its overbloated mandate, abysmal efficiency, and dysfunctional bureacracy that has very little to do with actual education and its outcomes
      - andrekandre 3y ago
        > Problem is with American University itself, its overbloated mandate, abysmal efficiency, and dysfunctional bureacracy that has very little to do with actual education and its outcomes was it always like this though? from what i've heard it didn't always used to be like that....
  - hollandheese 3y ago
    States don’t pay the tuition for private K-12 students and they won’t pay the tuition for private colleges.
    - slt2021 3y ago
      Nor compare the quality of average public school with average private school? The difference is day and night, especially in academics. Public schools became sort of free daycare. I fear public universities will become something like that plus job program for bureacrats unemployable anywhere else (just like with any state government)
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> my sister who had a masters and is making $35k as a teacher Tennessee If it's a public school, those loans should begin falling off after five years and be forgiven after ten [1]. [1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/teacher-student-loan-forgiveness/ https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/teacher-student...
- j45 3y ago
  Still not ideal.
  - throwaway5959 3y ago
    Nothing is ideal. There’s always a compromise. I think supporting foster kids is a good idea.
    - j45 3y ago
      It’s excellent. Just further down the education funnel and accessibility will be relative to navigating the barriers in K-12
- musicale 3y ago
  IIRC PSLF originally required not ten years of elapsed time but rather 120 sequential on-time payments in full under a qualifying repayment plan, where "on-time" was determined by the loan servicer. And you had to keep working beyond that time until the application was approved (most were rejected) and processed (probably as quickly as government departments usually operate.) Loan servicers had every incentive to thwart this by declaring payments late or incomplete, steering borrowers into forbearance or non-qualifying repayment plans, etc. As you can imagine, fewer than 1% of applicants successfully had their loans discharged. They've been trying to fix things since the pandemic for people who consolidate to a federal direct loan.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > 120 sequential on-time payments in full under a specific repayment plan The sequential requirement has been removed, right?
throwaway5959 3y ago
So you got a good paying job and had supportive parents. I don’t get why you’re complaining, at least you had parents. What is this program costing you?
brucethemoose2 3y ago
> Too bad for my sister who had a masters and is making $35k as a teacher in Tennessee which is barely more than minimum wage. This is the real crime.
- ecf 3y ago
  It’s always depressing when we talk about the latest developments in minimum wage and how a day one burger flipper at an In and Out in California is making just as much as someone with 6 years of schooling and responsibility for teaching the next generation. Oh and that’s not even considering how much of her own $$$ is needed to successfully supply a classroom and how barely any is tax deductible. Her experiences almost single handedly altered my political viewpoints and who I vote for.
  - throwaway5959 3y ago
    Who are you voting for that will raise wages for teachers? Or are you looking to cut wages for burger flippers.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      I honestly don't know. I'm in California and "let's not make our teachers minimum wage slaves" wasnt on any candidate's platform from what I researched. Let alone on any of the viable candidates. If no one represents my ideals, what can I do?
      - bombcar 3y ago
        California is the state most likely to be able to fix it, simply get a proposition passed that says: > No administrator of any education system may be paid more than twice the lowest-paid teacher, no matter how many hours that teacher worked during the school year. A teacher is anyone who is responsible or in charge of children or students. Political salaries are deemed administrative of the educational system that is under the purview of that elected body.
acer589 3y ago
And those loans should be forgiven. Is this your position on anything becoming easier over time? "We shouldn't have ramps, my grandpa had to push grandma's wheelchair up the steps"?
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Are you saying that under current law the loans should be forgiven, or that we should have laws under which those loans are forgiven? I believe it's possible to have loans forgiven if you work in certain industries (like public school teaching) for enough years, but it's not a few years — more like a decade or two. If you think someone who gets a masters shouldn't have to pay back their loans, I'd counter that such a policy would be a wealth transfer from taxpayers to universities. Masters degrees are almost always a negative ROI endeavor, once opportunity cost is factored in. We shouldn't be subsidizing them even further, which will lead people to get even more of them, given how little they add to future earnings.