3 ms·

To backpedal just a little, I take offence at the simple conclusion, that removing lines, signs and lights will make things better. If you read a bit closer mos

To backpedal just a little, I take offence at the simple conclusion, that removing lines, signs and lights will make things better. If you read a bit closer most of the experiments are a bit more nuanced, for instance "a traffic circle, an extended cycle path, and a pedestrian area". It seems that in the famous experiment Monderman actually did add a fair amount of paint to the asphalt. Also, bad paint is worse than no paint, in particular dividing the road into more lanes than there is room for.

cycomanic 3y ago
Well if you look at thr pictures/Videos it's not really more paint it's just that he created shared space. In other words he put all different road users more closely together without obvious separations. This is much in line with research which shows that bike paths are much safer when put on the road than when put together with footpaths off the road. This very much aligns with my (admittedly anecdotal) evidence. I find riding on the road is typically much safer than riding on a bike path on the side of the road (like the typical German ones). On the road you are in the way so drivers pay attention to you, if you are on a bike path next to he road, cars will overlook you at the next intersection). That said completely separate paths with minimal intersection with cars are obviously even better.
- r00fus 3y ago
  > This is much in line with research which shows that bike paths are much safer when put on the road than when put together with footpaths off the road. Please share - this seems in opposition to all the other research I’ve seen that proximity between cars and bikes (esp with even painted bike lanes) is more dangerous for cyclists than separate lanes.
- em-bee 3y ago
  well, that is completely opposite to my experience. on or next to the road i have to constantly pay attention to traffic. every moment a car could get to close and scrape me or worse. away from the road i can ride much more relaxed. only at intersections i need to watch out for traffic.

cycomanic 3y ago

Well if you look at thr pictures/Videos it's not really more paint it's just that he created shared space. In other words he put all different road users more closely together without obvious separations. This is much in line with research which shows that bike paths are much safer when put on the road than when put together with footpaths off the road. This very much aligns with my (admittedly anecdotal) evidence. I find riding on the road is typically much safer than riding on a bike path on the side of the road (like the typical German ones). On the road you are in the way so drivers pay attention to you, if you are on a bike path next to he road, cars will overlook you at the next intersection). That said completely separate paths with minimal intersection with cars are obviously even better.

r00fus 3y ago
> This is much in line with research which shows that bike paths are much safer when put on the road than when put together with footpaths off the road. Please share - this seems in opposition to all the other research I’ve seen that proximity between cars and bikes (esp with even painted bike lanes) is more dangerous for cyclists than separate lanes.
em-bee 3y ago
well, that is completely opposite to my experience. on or next to the road i have to constantly pay attention to traffic. every moment a car could get to close and scrape me or worse. away from the road i can ride much more relaxed. only at intersections i need to watch out for traffic.