5 ms·

That is 100% wrong. Even in the very capital of corruption (in the US, anyway), Chicago, the slogan was "good government is good politics." In other words, doi

That is 100% wrong. Even in the very capital of corruption (in the US, anyway), Chicago, the slogan was "good government is good politics." In other words, doing a good job with the boring stuff is also good for getting elected.

dathinab 3y ago
> In other words, doing a good job with the boring stuff is also good for getting elected. yes and that is fully unrelated to the question of weather politics is about morals or not e.g. you explanation also would go hand in hand with not electing anyone with very bad morals because then it's guaranteed that they won't just do "the boring stuff good" but will try to do other stuff; Or if they are corrupt will not do the boring stuff sustainable good because of corruption sneaking in slowly etc. or in other words voting with ethics/morals in mind _but focusing on candidates with non extream ethics/morals_ is essential for there beeing any chance for good government longterm
- deleted 3y ago
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tptacek 3y ago
Could we not, with the regional slurs here? Chicago has a lot of public corruption cases largely because it's a huge city. Louisiana and DC have the highest per-capita corruption, followed by Tennessee. It's not that the point you're making here is totally invalid --- there's public corruption in Chicago, to be sure! --- but there are other ways to say it. The actual capital of public corruption in the US is, as it turns out, also just the country's capital.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  I grew up there & I'll continue to say that. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from, but Chicago has been doing it for a century, so they own it. It's an unusual year there when a politician does not get indicted.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    The stats come from the DOJ. The reason not to deploy regional slurs is because they beg for unproductive threads challenging and refining the claims. For instance: it is simply not the case that Chicago is meaningfully the "capital of corruption". It has more absolute public corruption cases, but does not lead relative to its population (you see similar things with the "most dangerous city" stuff). I'm not saying you shouldn't have pointed out public corruption in Chicago. I'm just saying you should be more careful with the words you pick. (As is probably obvious, I'm a lifelong Chicagoan).
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      Sorry, but it simply IS the case that Chicago is the "capital of corruption". It's not a "regional slur." You're entitled to your opinion, but so am I: I went to the high school (Fenger) that the real Eliot Ness went to, and so did both of my parents.
      - tptacek 3y ago
        So as long as we're clear that you're saying this because of the mythology of Al Capone and I'm saying it because I'm looking at current DOJ per capita corruption statistics, I'm comfortable leaving the thread where it is.
        AlbertCory 3y ago
        just to amend that: it isn't just Al Capone and Frank Nitti, which was the 20's and 30's. Richard J. Daley and his son Richie continued into the 90's, with a brief interregnum.
        deleted 3y ago
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        tptacek 3y ago
        Oh, Nitti and Richard M. Daley. Good point. I guess the DOJ stats must be wrong. It's just a super weird argument is all, like: I can see a variety of ways to make an argument that Chicago is super corrupt, but none of them involve an organized crime empire based on bootlegging Canadian Club.
kriops 3y ago
That is simply the definition. A definition can't be wrong as long as it's consistent and not entirely superfluous. Slogans are however factually incorrect all the time, including the one you base your opinion on.

dathinab 3y ago

> In other words, doing a good job with the boring stuff is also good for getting elected. yes and that is fully unrelated to the question of weather politics is about morals or not e.g. you explanation also would go hand in hand with not electing anyone with very bad morals because then it's guaranteed that they won't just do "the boring stuff good" but will try to do other stuff; Or if they are corrupt will not do the boring stuff sustainable good because of corruption sneaking in slowly etc. or in other words voting with ethics/morals in mind _but focusing on candidates with non extream ethics/morals_ is essential for there beeing any chance for good government longterm

deleted 3y ago
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tptacek 3y ago

Could we not, with the regional slurs here? Chicago has a lot of public corruption cases largely because it's a huge city. Louisiana and DC have the highest per-capita corruption, followed by Tennessee. It's not that the point you're making here is totally invalid --- there's public corruption in Chicago, to be sure! --- but there are other ways to say it. The actual capital of public corruption in the US is, as it turns out, also just the country's capital.

AlbertCory 3y ago
I grew up there & I'll continue to say that. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from, but Chicago has been doing it for a century, so they own it. It's an unusual year there when a politician does not get indicted.
- tptacek 3y ago
  The stats come from the DOJ. The reason not to deploy regional slurs is because they beg for unproductive threads challenging and refining the claims. For instance: it is simply not the case that Chicago is meaningfully the "capital of corruption". It has more absolute public corruption cases, but does not lead relative to its population (you see similar things with the "most dangerous city" stuff). I'm not saying you shouldn't have pointed out public corruption in Chicago. I'm just saying you should be more careful with the words you pick. (As is probably obvious, I'm a lifelong Chicagoan).
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    Sorry, but it simply IS the case that Chicago is the "capital of corruption". It's not a "regional slur." You're entitled to your opinion, but so am I: I went to the high school (Fenger) that the real Eliot Ness went to, and so did both of my parents.
    - tptacek 3y ago
      So as long as we're clear that you're saying this because of the mythology of Al Capone and I'm saying it because I'm looking at current DOJ per capita corruption statistics, I'm comfortable leaving the thread where it is.
      - AlbertCory 3y ago
        just to amend that: it isn't just Al Capone and Frank Nitti, which was the 20's and 30's. Richard J. Daley and his son Richie continued into the 90's, with a brief interregnum.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        tptacek 3y ago
        Oh, Nitti and Richard M. Daley. Good point. I guess the DOJ stats must be wrong. It's just a super weird argument is all, like: I can see a variety of ways to make an argument that Chicago is super corrupt, but none of them involve an organized crime empire based on bootlegging Canadian Club.

kriops 3y ago

That is simply the definition. A definition can't be wrong as long as it's consistent and not entirely superfluous. Slogans are however factually incorrect all the time, including the one you base your opinion on.