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Is this really blamed on Apartheid? Whenever I have talked with South African Blacks about the various tribal affiliations of the country, they claim that each

Is this really blamed on Apartheid? Whenever I have talked with South African Blacks about the various tribal affiliations of the country, they claim that each community did not much like each other (and everyone hated the Zulus) since long before white people arrived. Indeed, it was white oppression that gave an impetus to pan-Africanism where, for a time in the ANC, people might have united across tribal affiliations.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
The Tutsi and Hutu split stretches back before colonisation too. You could make the argument that it was always going to be a problem and the colonizers didn't materially affect the course of history. What you can't do is argue they didn't intentionally take advantage of this split for their own purposes. Because they did and it's documented history. edit to add: Here's a pro-apartheid Quora answer that suggests the separation of the different tribes was necessary to stop communists from stealing South Africa's mineral wealth. > Apartheid gave these tribes their land back. Apartheid gave each tribe his independence from White Rule. Yes you lived ‘apart’ from the whites. But you lived apart in your own country. You could choose your own leaders and government and destiny. > Communism was one of the driving forces to push the Black Independence program. The communists were using the blacks to try out vote the whites so that they could get control of of SAs mineral resources. By dividing SA into several smaller countries you effectively defeated the Communist plan.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  That odd poster is writing about the (rather abortive) Bantustan effort after 1970. While that effort aimed to separate whites and blacks, it didn’t particularly seek to separate blacks from each other in spite of a claimed titular nationality for each; the projected bantustans were quite tribally mixed. So, it isn’t an example of what you were claiming.
  - _djo_ 3y ago
    That's inaccurate, the Bantustans were explicitly created on tribal lines: Transkei & Ciskei: Xhosa Bophuthatswana: Tswana (it's even in the name!) Venda: Venda (ditto) Kwazulu: Zulu (seeing the trend here?) The Apartheid government was heavily involved in pitting tribes against each other, and especially in trying to co-opt Zulus against the others by allying with the Inkhata Freedom Party and Zulu king and offering them money, power, and other incentives.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

The Tutsi and Hutu split stretches back before colonisation too. You could make the argument that it was always going to be a problem and the colonizers didn't materially affect the course of history. What you can't do is argue they didn't intentionally take advantage of this split for their own purposes. Because they did and it's documented history. edit to add: Here's a pro-apartheid Quora answer that suggests the separation of the different tribes was necessary to stop communists from stealing South Africa's mineral wealth. > Apartheid gave these tribes their land back. Apartheid gave each tribe his independence from White Rule. Yes you lived ‘apart’ from the whites. But you lived apart in your own country. You could choose your own leaders and government and destiny. > Communism was one of the driving forces to push the Black Independence program. The communists were using the blacks to try out vote the whites so that they could get control of of SAs mineral resources. By dividing SA into several smaller countries you effectively defeated the Communist plan.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
That odd poster is writing about the (rather abortive) Bantustan effort after 1970. While that effort aimed to separate whites and blacks, it didn’t particularly seek to separate blacks from each other in spite of a claimed titular nationality for each; the projected bantustans were quite tribally mixed. So, it isn’t an example of what you were claiming.
- _djo_ 3y ago
  That's inaccurate, the Bantustans were explicitly created on tribal lines: Transkei & Ciskei: Xhosa Bophuthatswana: Tswana (it's even in the name!) Venda: Venda (ditto) Kwazulu: Zulu (seeing the trend here?) The Apartheid government was heavily involved in pitting tribes against each other, and especially in trying to co-opt Zulus against the others by allying with the Inkhata Freedom Party and Zulu king and offering them money, power, and other incentives.