5 ms·

I've heard similar things about Romania and Bulgaria which are both EU countries.

by CSMastermind 3y ago

izacus 3y ago
Plenty of things are "heard" with dubious truthfulness.
- smcin 3y ago
  Corruption Perceptions Index data has been documenting this for decades: * 2000: Bulgaria 3.5/10, Romania 2.9/10 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2000 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2000 * 2007: Bulgaria 4.1/10, Romania 3.7/10 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2007 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2007 * 2013: Bulgaria 41/100, Romania 43/100 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2013 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2013 * 2022: Bulgaria 43/100, Romania 46/100, Western Europe and EU average: 66 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022 "2022 Corruption Perceptions Index Reveals Undue Influence And Fragmented Anti-Corruption Efforts Threaten Progress In Western Europe & EU": https://www.transparency.org/en/press/2022-corruption-perceptions-index-reveals-undue-influence-fragmented-anticorruption-threaten-progress-western-europe-eu https://www.transparency.org/en/press/2022-corruption-percep...
mhitza 3y ago
Romania has high levels of corruption, but when we entered the EU we had high levels of overt corruption. I'll never forget during the presidential elections of early 2010s (or around that time) (we joined EU in 2007) when a member of the loosing party (which would then become our prime minister), Victor Ponta, stated frankly, in an interview, that they lost because his party stole fewer votes (bribing the poor with meager amounts of household products to vote for them, which is a favorite campaign activity around here). However to combat this prolific corruption (in part because of EU mandate), around the same time, our winning president instated the National Anticorruption Directorate (DNA in Romanian) which is a "taskforce" of judges and lawyers investigating these highly profilic cases. It became moderately successful (there's always room for improvement). The EU took note, and brought in members of the directorate to instate a similar structure centrally as an EU institution (for cross border corruption cases), and afaik the process has been set in motion to instate the same directorare in Bulgaria (under the guide of a certain prosecution attorney that lead this directorare in Romania, Laura Codruta Kovesi).
- ChoHag 3y ago
  [dead]
- optimalsolver 3y ago
  *losing Just FYI.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  Whenever foreigners bring corruption in Romania, I try to emphasize that while it exists, it is no longer very visible unless you are in fairly high-level business and politics. There was a time when everyone on the bus had to contribute 5€ when crossing the border, so that the customs officials wouldn’t go through everyone’s luggage. A time when you couldn’t register a sole proprietorship without at least offering the clerk some chocolate or whatever as a token bribe. But that all disappeared about 2006 and life in Romania is little different from Western EU states.
Longhanks 3y ago
Corruption is also common practice within the EU (see: Eva Kaili), most of the upper EU just hides it better while pointing fingers at "unaligned" states, inside and outside of the EU. If Von der Leyen wasn’t corrupt, I’m sure she wouldn’t have any problem handing over her texts.
- worrycue 3y ago
  > If Von der Leyen wasn’t corrupt, I’m sure she wouldn’t have any problem handing over her texts. Haven’t found much on this. Frankly there is no need to allege corruption against this particular EU politician when there are better examples like those involved with the Qatar scandal.
- chewz 3y ago
  > If Von der Leyen wasn’t corrupt, I’m sure she wouldn’t have any problem handing over her texts. Are you talking about Pfizer related text messages or earlier German MoD/McKinsey text messages?
- mvanbaak 3y ago
  > wouldn’t have any problem handing over her texts This is the same non-reason as is being brought up with cameras filming you 24/7 etc. 'You dont have to worry if you have nothing to hide' ... It's an invasion of privacy, and it is worth fighting against that.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    Being forced to share correspondence related to your job as a public official seems different to exposing your entire life to a camera.
  - brightlancer 3y ago
    Was she acting as a private individual or as a government official? Government has ZERO right to privacy; government agents in their capacity have ZERO right to privacy. If a government agent uses a private account to do government business, then a) they should be fired/ removed and charged for trying to hide that business and b) those accounts should be turned over to the government, redacted of anything not related to the government business, and everything else made public. A private individual has a right to privacy. Government, including anyone acting as its agent, do not.

I've heard similar things about Romania and Bulgaria which are both EU countries.

izacus 3y ago

Plenty of things are "heard" with dubious truthfulness.

smcin 3y ago
Corruption Perceptions Index data has been documenting this for decades: * 2000: Bulgaria 3.5/10, Romania 2.9/10 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2000 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2000 * 2007: Bulgaria 4.1/10, Romania 3.7/10 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2007 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2007 * 2013: Bulgaria 41/100, Romania 43/100 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2013 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2013 * 2022: Bulgaria 43/100, Romania 46/100, Western Europe and EU average: 66 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022 "2022 Corruption Perceptions Index Reveals Undue Influence And Fragmented Anti-Corruption Efforts Threaten Progress In Western Europe & EU": https://www.transparency.org/en/press/2022-corruption-perceptions-index-reveals-undue-influence-fragmented-anticorruption-threaten-progress-western-europe-eu https://www.transparency.org/en/press/2022-corruption-percep...

mhitza 3y ago

Romania has high levels of corruption, but when we entered the EU we had high levels of overt corruption. I'll never forget during the presidential elections of early 2010s (or around that time) (we joined EU in 2007) when a member of the loosing party (which would then become our prime minister), Victor Ponta, stated frankly, in an interview, that they lost because his party stole fewer votes (bribing the poor with meager amounts of household products to vote for them, which is a favorite campaign activity around here). However to combat this prolific corruption (in part because of EU mandate), around the same time, our winning president instated the National Anticorruption Directorate (DNA in Romanian) which is a "taskforce" of judges and lawyers investigating these highly profilic cases. It became moderately successful (there's always room for improvement). The EU took note, and brought in members of the directorate to instate a similar structure centrally as an EU institution (for cross border corruption cases), and afaik the process has been set in motion to instate the same directorare in Bulgaria (under the guide of a certain prosecution attorney that lead this directorare in Romania, Laura Codruta Kovesi).

ChoHag 3y ago
[dead]
optimalsolver 3y ago
*losing Just FYI.
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
Whenever foreigners bring corruption in Romania, I try to emphasize that while it exists, it is no longer very visible unless you are in fairly high-level business and politics. There was a time when everyone on the bus had to contribute 5€ when crossing the border, so that the customs officials wouldn’t go through everyone’s luggage. A time when you couldn’t register a sole proprietorship without at least offering the clerk some chocolate or whatever as a token bribe. But that all disappeared about 2006 and life in Romania is little different from Western EU states.

Longhanks 3y ago

Corruption is also common practice within the EU (see: Eva Kaili), most of the upper EU just hides it better while pointing fingers at "unaligned" states, inside and outside of the EU. If Von der Leyen wasn’t corrupt, I’m sure she wouldn’t have any problem handing over her texts.

worrycue 3y ago
> If Von der Leyen wasn’t corrupt, I’m sure she wouldn’t have any problem handing over her texts. Haven’t found much on this. Frankly there is no need to allege corruption against this particular EU politician when there are better examples like those involved with the Qatar scandal.
chewz 3y ago
> If Von der Leyen wasn’t corrupt, I’m sure she wouldn’t have any problem handing over her texts. Are you talking about Pfizer related text messages or earlier German MoD/McKinsey text messages?
mvanbaak 3y ago
> wouldn’t have any problem handing over her texts This is the same non-reason as is being brought up with cameras filming you 24/7 etc. 'You dont have to worry if you have nothing to hide' ... It's an invasion of privacy, and it is worth fighting against that.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  Being forced to share correspondence related to your job as a public official seems different to exposing your entire life to a camera.
- brightlancer 3y ago
  Was she acting as a private individual or as a government official? Government has ZERO right to privacy; government agents in their capacity have ZERO right to privacy. If a government agent uses a private account to do government business, then a) they should be fired/ removed and charged for trying to hide that business and b) those accounts should be turned over to the government, redacted of anything not related to the government business, and everything else made public. A private individual has a right to privacy. Government, including anyone acting as its agent, do not.