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I'm trying to imagine a plausible reason to (a) run a Tor exit node, but also (b) not actually use Tor for online nefariousness, and I'm coming up blank. I don'

I'm trying to imagine a plausible reason to (a) run a Tor exit node, but also (b) not actually use Tor for online nefariousness, and I'm coming up blank. I don't think running a Tor node as an excuse is a real scenario. (edit: emphasis) Edit2: Jeez guys. I support Tor. I'm saying anyone who runs an exit node is also going to use Tor for anything that might get them in trouble, not do those thing in the clear and "use Tor as an excuse" as suggested above. That's a silly scenario and a poor justification for criminalizing Tor exit nodes.

cs02rm0 3y ago
Any privacy advocate would do (a). There's lots of reasons to do (b) if you don't trust the government of the country you're in, which seems quite reasonable in a lot of countries around the world.
- DennisP 3y ago
  Of course, but who would do (a) without also using Tor for anything that could get them in trouble?
monsieurbanana 3y ago
That's not how Tor works, you don't need to run a tor exit to use it. If you were actually doing something nefarious and using tor for anonymity, running an exit from the same ip doesn't sound extremely smart.
- swores 3y ago
  You're misunderstanding the comment you're replying to. They're not saying you need an exit node to do bad stuff over Tor, they're saying that anybody with the technical ability and knowledge to run a tor exit mode would also choose to use Tor for any bad stuff, and that therefore it seems unlikely anyone who runs a tor exit node would also do bad stuff directly traceable to their own IP.
  - DennisP 3y ago
    Exactly, thank you.
  - monsieurbanana 3y ago
    You're right, it took me a while but I see it now. The phrasing is confusing
Sankozi 3y ago
If running Tor protected you from any responsibility of traffic coming from you then it would be a real scenario. But there is an expectation that you should be at least somewhat responsible of traffic you generate. That is why running Tor exit node is often linked with meeting law enforcement officials.
mrighele 3y ago
In some countries "online nefariousness" include things like trying to access gay communities, or looking information about abortion.
- DennisP 3y ago
  I strongly support Tor. I'm saying that anyone who runs an exit node is also going to use Tor for anything that might get them in trouble. Hence, it's nonsense to say that Tor exit nodes should be illegal on the grounds that they can be "used as an excuse," as the comment above suggested.
mikegreenberg 3y ago
Based on your wording, it sounds like you're conflating the two things together... running an exit node and using tor are orthogonal to one another both in value provided to the user as well as effort involved. Plausible reasons for: (a) you greatly value privacy and the privacy of others such that you are willing to altruistically provide an exit node as a service; your country is a police state and you are sympathetic to those affected while also willing to accept the risk (b) you greatly value your privacy and do not trust your ISP; you cannot access content sanctioned in your country; you are an internet engineer and need to test services which depend on privacy as a core feature
- mikegreenberg 3y ago
  Also, I assume it wasn't intentional, but consider against arguing from the position of "I can't think of anything". You are betraying yourself by implying that you know all there is to know...which no one does.
  - DennisP 3y ago
    Maybe if I'd said "I can't imagine X therefore Y must be true," but what I said was "I can't imagine X so I think Y" which doesn't imply I know everything at all. Quite the opposite imho. It implies I could change my opinion on Y if you showed me an example of X. In any case, apparently that plus my use of the word "not" were ill-advised, since almost everyone here misread my comment to mean the opposite of what I actually meant. One person did read it as intended, and got another person to see it that way.
- DennisP 3y ago
  As someone else helpfully clarified for me, my point is that anyone with the technical skill to run a Tor exit node is also going to use Tor to hide any illegal activities they do online.
tamimio 3y ago
Yes because every one is living in a free country with no invasion of privacy rights and ISP to MITM every thing about you, US including btw with patriot Act.. and before you say “yeah but I am not doing anything illegal!?”, yet, laws change all the time, not to mention you don’t have to do anything illegal, you just don’t like spooks/ISP/etc. looking into your business, after all, it should be the case as a free citizen.
- DennisP 3y ago
  See my edit above and my previous replies to your sibling comments.

cs02rm0 3y ago

Any privacy advocate would do (a). There's lots of reasons to do (b) if you don't trust the government of the country you're in, which seems quite reasonable in a lot of countries around the world.

DennisP 3y ago
Of course, but who would do (a) without also using Tor for anything that could get them in trouble?

monsieurbanana 3y ago

That's not how Tor works, you don't need to run a tor exit to use it. If you were actually doing something nefarious and using tor for anonymity, running an exit from the same ip doesn't sound extremely smart.

swores 3y ago
You're misunderstanding the comment you're replying to. They're not saying you need an exit node to do bad stuff over Tor, they're saying that anybody with the technical ability and knowledge to run a tor exit mode would also choose to use Tor for any bad stuff, and that therefore it seems unlikely anyone who runs a tor exit node would also do bad stuff directly traceable to their own IP.
- DennisP 3y ago
  Exactly, thank you.
- monsieurbanana 3y ago
  You're right, it took me a while but I see it now. The phrasing is confusing

Sankozi 3y ago

If running Tor protected you from any responsibility of traffic coming from you then it would be a real scenario. But there is an expectation that you should be at least somewhat responsible of traffic you generate. That is why running Tor exit node is often linked with meeting law enforcement officials.

mrighele 3y ago

In some countries "online nefariousness" include things like trying to access gay communities, or looking information about abortion.

DennisP 3y ago
I strongly support Tor. I'm saying that anyone who runs an exit node is also going to use Tor for anything that might get them in trouble. Hence, it's nonsense to say that Tor exit nodes should be illegal on the grounds that they can be "used as an excuse," as the comment above suggested.

mikegreenberg 3y ago

Based on your wording, it sounds like you're conflating the two things together... running an exit node and using tor are orthogonal to one another both in value provided to the user as well as effort involved. Plausible reasons for: (a) you greatly value privacy and the privacy of others such that you are willing to altruistically provide an exit node as a service; your country is a police state and you are sympathetic to those affected while also willing to accept the risk (b) you greatly value your privacy and do not trust your ISP; you cannot access content sanctioned in your country; you are an internet engineer and need to test services which depend on privacy as a core feature

mikegreenberg 3y ago
Also, I assume it wasn't intentional, but consider against arguing from the position of "I can't think of anything". You are betraying yourself by implying that you know all there is to know...which no one does.
- DennisP 3y ago
  Maybe if I'd said "I can't imagine X therefore Y must be true," but what I said was "I can't imagine X so I think Y" which doesn't imply I know everything at all. Quite the opposite imho. It implies I could change my opinion on Y if you showed me an example of X. In any case, apparently that plus my use of the word "not" were ill-advised, since almost everyone here misread my comment to mean the opposite of what I actually meant. One person did read it as intended, and got another person to see it that way.
DennisP 3y ago
As someone else helpfully clarified for me, my point is that anyone with the technical skill to run a Tor exit node is also going to use Tor to hide any illegal activities they do online.

tamimio 3y ago

Yes because every one is living in a free country with no invasion of privacy rights and ISP to MITM every thing about you, US including btw with patriot Act.. and before you say “yeah but I am not doing anything illegal!?”, yet, laws change all the time, not to mention you don’t have to do anything illegal, you just don’t like spooks/ISP/etc. looking into your business, after all, it should be the case as a free citizen.

DennisP 3y ago
See my edit above and my previous replies to your sibling comments.