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Or they gambled that there would be enough hydrogen generation and distribution, which seems like an even worse bet. It's not that they decided to stick with IC
by bink 3y ago
Or they gambled that there would be enough hydrogen generation and distribution, which seems like an even worse bet. It's not that they decided to stick with ICE, it's that they chose an even worse fuel source.
- _hypx 3y agoIt's incredibly short-sighted to think like this. There will be a huge supply of hydrogen at some point in the future. This is due to it being the only truly sustainable energy storage technology. Nearly all others will have to be abandoned.
- _aavaa_ 3y ago> in the future. Yes, and that's where it will stay in the future. Unfortunately, we need solutions that exist in the present.
- alephnerd 3y agoA lot of this is because of the Japanese government itself. To Japan, Battery Tech would force them to be reliant on China or the US due to lack of natural lithium deposits, which makes the whole energy reliance aspect of battery tech moot. To combat this, the Japanese government felt Hydrogen would be the best bet due to 1. An early lead in hydrogen technology, so first mover advantage in technology exports and hydrogen infrastructure deals (already happening in India and Australia for example) 2. A large LNG capacity that could be revamped for Hydrogen fuels 3. Good relations with cheap coal producers like Australia and India to produce brown hydrogen (ie. Hydrogen fuel from carbon resources) 4. The economics and logistics of hydrogen fuel cells can mimic that for Natural Gas, meaning a quicker ramp up. These are a good overview - 1. Japan’s Hydrogen Industrial Strategy - https://www.csis.org/analysis/japans-hydrogen-industrial-strategy https://www.csis.org/analysis/japans-hydrogen-industrial-str... 2. Japan Hydrogen Basic Strategy - https://www.whitecase.com/insight-alert/japan-hydrogen-basic-strategy https://www.whitecase.com/insight-alert/japan-hydrogen-basic... 3. Basic Strategy for Hydrogen (the actual strategy paper. It's in Japanese) - https://www.meti.go.jp/shingikai/enecho/shoene_shinene/suiso_seisaku/pdf/20230606_2.pdf https://www.meti.go.jp/shingikai/enecho/shoene_shinene/suiso...
- guerby 3y agoJapan depends on continuously imported oil and gas. The BIG difference for lithium batteries is that you need to import lithium only ONCE then you reuse/recycle. And yes there's big big money at play, so lots and lots of FUD around lithium and geopolitics, the obvious difference with oil is nearly never mentionned thanks to oil money. Also : https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Japan-to-subsidize-half-of-costs-for-lithium-and-key-mineral-projects https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Japan-to-subsidize-half-of-c...
- alephnerd 3y agoGood point. I brought up the oil aspect in my comments below, but because this was a battery tech related convo I decided to bring up the (relatively minor) lithium portion. Though the battery tech issue did play a role in Toyota's decision to develop the Prius and the Mirai Japan's hydrogen strategy is definetly a reaction to oil shocks a la 2008 and 1973
- _hypx 3y agoWrong. It is the smartest choice we can think of. It is battery cars that is just an irrational reaction to oil shocks of the 2000s. Hydrogen is actually a fully sustainable idea and will eventually be adopted across the board. Batteries are just going to be a temporary stopgap.