5 ms·

I know this has been getting a lot of attention, but tips are out of control. I recently went somewhere and was forced to tip — as in, 0 USD/% was not an optio

I know this has been getting a lot of attention, but tips are out of control. I recently went somewhere and was forced to tip — as in, 0 USD/% was not an option — for literally doing nothing but ringing me up. The minimum amount was 25% of the bill. Tips are becoming another mandatory hidden fee, which is a form of bait and switch. Wages shouldn't be part of that and it shouldn't happen either way.

csdreamer7 3y ago
We really need national legislation on this. Sales tax being added on is one thing, but tipping is really per business and it will only get worse.
HWR_14 3y ago
How was 0USD/0% not an option? For a tip, it's entirely voluntary.
- derbOac 3y ago
  I got my item and went to the register to pay for it, and the credit card screen gave the price, and then displayed a menu for tips (it was specifically labeled as being for a "tip" amount). This tip menu had three options, in USD amounts (not percents), none of which was 0 dollars. There was no option to skip or "no tip" or anything like that. I would have had to refuse to pay and put the item back. I suppose I could have, but I was buying food for my daughter, who was with me and was hungry. It wasn't that much money overall, but the minimum tip amount was a pretty large percentage of the total cost. Five years ago it would have just been bundled into the cost of the item.
- synetic 3y ago
  A local place near where I live have a 15% employee wellness fee added to the cost of the purchase. This money goes to the employee and is, in essence, a tip. There was no sign stating this fact. I found out after looking at the receipt. I’ll never go back to that place.
  - jlund-molfese 3y ago
    I’ve seen that at some restaurants in the US too. There’s usually a CYA clause like “you can ask for this fee to be taken off,” but it’s deliberately a policy designed to make customers uncomfortable and accept the surcharge. I normally tip 20% or so, but if there’s a mandatory surcharge, I just subtract it from the tip.
paxys 3y ago
If it wasn't stated up front during ordering then it's not a tip, you are just getting scammed. I'd just not pay it and walk out. What are they going to do? If you aren't willing to stand up for yourself then you don't get to complain.
sebmellen 3y ago
That is illegal. You should report the business to the IRS. > “Revenue Ruling 2012-18 reaffirms the factors which are used to determine whether payments constitute tips or service charges. Q&A 1 of Revenue Ruling 2012-18 provides that the absence of any of the following factors creates a doubt as to whether a payment is a tip and indicates that the payment may be a service charge: > - The payment must be made free from compulsion > - The customer must have the unrestricted right to determine the amount > - The payment should not be the subject of negotiation or dictated by employer policy; and > - Generally, the customer has the right to determine who receives the payment. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-reporting https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...
- bdowling 3y ago
  > That is illegal. Given that this is an IRS rule, it’s probably only illegal if the business reports the income as tip income to its employees, as opposed to a service fee charged by the business.
  - sebmellen 3y ago
    Then those charges should also be labeled as such to customers.
- bitshiftfaced 3y ago
  So all of those restaurants with a mandatory top on large tables are breaking the law.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    It's only illegal if they are reporting it to the IRS as tip revenue. Mandatory tips aren't tips, they are service charges and must be reported to the IRS that way.
    - sebmellen 3y ago
dataflow 3y ago
I had to go through similar nonsense recently. I was getting pizza and the cashier said (smiling) "it's better with tip". The first time he did it I figured I'd tip him. He handed me the pizza when it was ready and that was that. The second time I didn't tip him and he was like, No tip?? I said yeah I don't understand why - isn't tip for service? He said well yeah, I'm trying to provide service. As I was about to reply "but that's already in..." he interjected "when you don't pay a tip, I just give you the pizza. But when you tip, I put in a little something extra." I was confused and just looked blankly and said I didn't ask for anything extra. He stopped arguing and when the pizza was ready, didn't say anything until I was about to inquire. Then he gave it to me - another pizza exactly like the one he'd given with the tip before. I honestly kind of felt bad, in that he probably wasn't making that much money, and the tip probably meant more to him than it meant to me. But demanding a tip and falsely telling me I'm getting more than I'm paying for is not the right way to fix that, and the pizza wasn't particularly cheap either...
- Thoeu388 3y ago
  Sound like a blackmail. No tip and you get cold pizza or something worse.
  - dataflow 3y ago
    I was actually worried he would put less of the toppings or something; I'm glad he didn't do that. I have a hard time figuring out if the delay was intentional or not, though it certainly seemed suspicious. But thankfully I didn't end up wasting more than a handful of minutes as a result of that, since I was expecting something like this and thus keeping an eye out.
  - minerva23 3y ago
    That's extortion, not blackmail.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

csdreamer7 3y ago

We really need national legislation on this. Sales tax being added on is one thing, but tipping is really per business and it will only get worse.

HWR_14 3y ago

How was 0USD/0% not an option? For a tip, it's entirely voluntary.

derbOac 3y ago
I got my item and went to the register to pay for it, and the credit card screen gave the price, and then displayed a menu for tips (it was specifically labeled as being for a "tip" amount). This tip menu had three options, in USD amounts (not percents), none of which was 0 dollars. There was no option to skip or "no tip" or anything like that. I would have had to refuse to pay and put the item back. I suppose I could have, but I was buying food for my daughter, who was with me and was hungry. It wasn't that much money overall, but the minimum tip amount was a pretty large percentage of the total cost. Five years ago it would have just been bundled into the cost of the item.
synetic 3y ago
A local place near where I live have a 15% employee wellness fee added to the cost of the purchase. This money goes to the employee and is, in essence, a tip. There was no sign stating this fact. I found out after looking at the receipt. I’ll never go back to that place.
- jlund-molfese 3y ago
  I’ve seen that at some restaurants in the US too. There’s usually a CYA clause like “you can ask for this fee to be taken off,” but it’s deliberately a policy designed to make customers uncomfortable and accept the surcharge. I normally tip 20% or so, but if there’s a mandatory surcharge, I just subtract it from the tip.

paxys 3y ago

If it wasn't stated up front during ordering then it's not a tip, you are just getting scammed. I'd just not pay it and walk out. What are they going to do? If you aren't willing to stand up for yourself then you don't get to complain.

sebmellen 3y ago

That is illegal. You should report the business to the IRS. > “Revenue Ruling 2012-18 reaffirms the factors which are used to determine whether payments constitute tips or service charges. Q&A 1 of Revenue Ruling 2012-18 provides that the absence of any of the following factors creates a doubt as to whether a payment is a tip and indicates that the payment may be a service charge: > - The payment must be made free from compulsion > - The customer must have the unrestricted right to determine the amount > - The payment should not be the subject of negotiation or dictated by employer policy; and > - Generally, the customer has the right to determine who receives the payment. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-reporting https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

bdowling 3y ago
> That is illegal. Given that this is an IRS rule, it’s probably only illegal if the business reports the income as tip income to its employees, as opposed to a service fee charged by the business.
- sebmellen 3y ago
  Then those charges should also be labeled as such to customers.
bitshiftfaced 3y ago
So all of those restaurants with a mandatory top on large tables are breaking the law.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  It's only illegal if they are reporting it to the IRS as tip revenue. Mandatory tips aren't tips, they are service charges and must be reported to the IRS that way.
  - sebmellen 3y ago

dataflow 3y ago

I had to go through similar nonsense recently. I was getting pizza and the cashier said (smiling) "it's better with tip". The first time he did it I figured I'd tip him. He handed me the pizza when it was ready and that was that. The second time I didn't tip him and he was like, No tip?? I said yeah I don't understand why - isn't tip for service? He said well yeah, I'm trying to provide service. As I was about to reply "but that's already in..." he interjected "when you don't pay a tip, I just give you the pizza. But when you tip, I put in a little something extra." I was confused and just looked blankly and said I didn't ask for anything extra. He stopped arguing and when the pizza was ready, didn't say anything until I was about to inquire. Then he gave it to me - another pizza exactly like the one he'd given with the tip before. I honestly kind of felt bad, in that he probably wasn't making that much money, and the tip probably meant more to him than it meant to me. But demanding a tip and falsely telling me I'm getting more than I'm paying for is not the right way to fix that, and the pizza wasn't particularly cheap either...

Thoeu388 3y ago
Sound like a blackmail. No tip and you get cold pizza or something worse.
- dataflow 3y ago
  I was actually worried he would put less of the toppings or something; I'm glad he didn't do that. I have a hard time figuring out if the delay was intentional or not, though it certainly seemed suspicious. But thankfully I didn't end up wasting more than a handful of minutes as a result of that, since I was expecting something like this and thus keeping an eye out.
- minerva23 3y ago
  That's extortion, not blackmail.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]