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"Remote work risks wiping $800 billion" No guesses which angle this is coming from. "Attendance still is 30% lower than what it was before the pandemic and on

"Remote work risks wiping $800 billion" No guesses which angle this is coming from. "Attendance still is 30% lower than what it was before the pandemic and only 37% of people are back at the office every day." And yet the world has not stopped. In fact everything seems to be going faster than ever.

traceroute66 3y ago
> And yet the world has not stopped. In fact everything seems to be going faster than ever. Indeed. I know many people who used to religiously go to the office 5-days a week. The only time they were not in the office was when they were on holiday or they were sick. It's what they did for their entire working lives. And in some cases it's what "custom and practice" historically dictated in their industry, e.g. those working in the financial sector. The pandemic forced their hand. And now my unscientific sample would suggest 80-90% of them now only go to the office for client meetings. Most weeks they don't go at all, or maybe they pop-in for a couple of hours on their way somewhere else. There is the occasional week where they do a full-day in the office for one or two days. But nobody I know is anywhere near the old 5-days a week regime. Employers attempting to force (or, if we're being polite "strongly encourage") people to return 5-days a week are playing a loosing game. The future is now and the future is hybrid or fully-remote for 99% of jobs. There are very few jobs out there that genuinely need you to be in a different building 5-days a week to do your job.
- chmod600 3y ago
  "The future is now and the future is hybrid or fully-remote for 99% of jobs." I assume you mean for 99% of office jobs.
  - devilbunny 3y ago
    Yeah, you can't be anything blue-collar remotely. As well as jobs like healthcare. Lots of jobs still require you to physically interact with people or things.
    - supportengineer 3y ago
      All of those jobs should pay MUCH more.
      - devilbunny 3y ago
        How much more, and how do you propose to pay for it?
      - osigurdson 3y ago
        Maybe, but as always supply and demand are at play. Perhaps in the future these jobs will pay much more than “information only” jobs but there are also other dynamics involved as well.
      - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
        I wonder if that's because you give a lot of value to remote work. It's full of people wanting to go back to the office too and that are really looking for day to day human interaction, so the value is way lower than if we consider the one that people who enjoy remote work give it.
      - chmod600 3y ago
        What does "should" mean? If I say "you should really get that cut checked out, it looks infected", then I'm making a recommendation to you or giving you advice (solicited or not). But here you seem to be giving advice to a class of jobs, which doesn't make a lot of sense. A class of jobs has no agency. Are you advising plumbers (one example of a blue collar job) to charge more for their services? I'm sure the thought occurred to them and it doesn't work for one reason or another. Are you advising customers of the plumber to pay more? Have you ever requested plumber services, and if so, did you pay the plumber "much more" (in other words, are you taking your own advice)?
      - lost_tourist 3y ago
        why should they though? They pay what the market will bear. They could pay a bit more if they would unionize successfully. Also lots of them do pay more when people take a risk and enter specialties and openly look for opportunity. You aren't going to make 100k digging ditches, but you can easily make that much as a plumber or electrician or machining expert.
csomar 3y ago
The world will never stop, not even for humans. On the other hand, if you have built a career around commercial office real-estate, the world might just have stopped for you. Still, live goes on.
- jacknews 3y ago
  Sure you have to feel sorry for realtors to some extent. But real-estate is at the very heart of the financial system, and therefore the economy if not the government. So this is not about individual careers or working preferences in themselves.
  - lost_tourist 3y ago
    There are plenty people who are making money in real estate in other market though, why is office space special? No one cared when my Great-great grandpa Willy the wagon wheel maker lost his job because of cars.
  - breakpointalpha 3y ago
    Horses were at the very heart of the American economy for over a hundred years, until the invention of steam power. Technology destroys old industries and creates new ones.
akudha 3y ago
I don't even turn my video on these days during calls. Most of my team mates don't. Some of them don't know how I look and I don't know how some of them look. And yet, we work well as a team. We are all in different cities and countries and work remote. Unless our physical presence is necessary (hairstylist, nurse, chef...), we should aggressively push back on "come to office 300 days a year" requirement. Only dumb middle managers and arrogant upper management (who probably have money invested in commercial real estate) think physical presence is required for all jobs. Either we work remote, or we improve housing and transportation. The former is easier to do while the latter is a near impossible problem to solve in the current political climate. Those who claim they build friendships etc at work, maybe genuinely ask yourselves - how many colleagues from your previous jobs do you really keep in touch?
- sbarre 3y ago
  This is fine for experienced workers who already know the job, but for anyone who is new (say first 2-5 years) or is looking for mentoring and growth/advancement opportunities, then the lack of in-person connections does hurt. > Those who claim they build friendships etc at work, maybe genuinely ask yourselves - how many colleagues from your previous jobs do you really keep in touch? I'll speak for myself and say that I am still regularly in touch with folks I worked at 4 jobs ago (12 years).. I guess it depends on why you are making those friendships, are you actually making friends or just looking to build social capital to give you advantage at work? It can certainly be both, but if you don't keep in touch when you move on, then maybe it was only the latter.
  - akudha 3y ago
    I've a team member who is about a year out of college. He calls me 2-3 times a week asking for help on whatever task he is working on. His timezone is 10 hours ahead of mine. Mentoring is doable. Couple of months ago, there were some discussions on restricting remote work (thankfully it didn't go anywhere, at least not yet). He was distraught, as his commute was at least 90 minutes, one way. Obviously nothing beats face-to-face interactions. But we need to consider the cost of it too. 3 hours of commute a day? Paying for gas, childcare? Polluting the environment, clogging the roads? We can try to solve these problems with better infrastructure (like highspeed rails), banning corporations like BlackRock buying up large chunks of desirable neighborhoods/holding them hostage etc. That would require some serious effort and willpower, which seem hard to come by. As for relationships, I too have a handful of people from years ago that I keep in touch. This can certainly be a disadvantage with remote work, but we need to compromise somewhere...
HlessClaudesman 3y ago
Companies could surely recoup some of those imaginary billions by letting go of a whole layer of superfluous managers whose only role is to peer longingly into empty cubicles.
- luvthis 3y ago
  [dead]

traceroute66 3y ago

> And yet the world has not stopped. In fact everything seems to be going faster than ever. Indeed. I know many people who used to religiously go to the office 5-days a week. The only time they were not in the office was when they were on holiday or they were sick. It's what they did for their entire working lives. And in some cases it's what "custom and practice" historically dictated in their industry, e.g. those working in the financial sector. The pandemic forced their hand. And now my unscientific sample would suggest 80-90% of them now only go to the office for client meetings. Most weeks they don't go at all, or maybe they pop-in for a couple of hours on their way somewhere else. There is the occasional week where they do a full-day in the office for one or two days. But nobody I know is anywhere near the old 5-days a week regime. Employers attempting to force (or, if we're being polite "strongly encourage") people to return 5-days a week are playing a loosing game. The future is now and the future is hybrid or fully-remote for 99% of jobs. There are very few jobs out there that genuinely need you to be in a different building 5-days a week to do your job.

chmod600 3y ago
"The future is now and the future is hybrid or fully-remote for 99% of jobs." I assume you mean for 99% of office jobs.
- devilbunny 3y ago
  Yeah, you can't be anything blue-collar remotely. As well as jobs like healthcare. Lots of jobs still require you to physically interact with people or things.
  - supportengineer 3y ago
    All of those jobs should pay MUCH more.
    - devilbunny 3y ago
      How much more, and how do you propose to pay for it?
    - osigurdson 3y ago
      Maybe, but as always supply and demand are at play. Perhaps in the future these jobs will pay much more than “information only” jobs but there are also other dynamics involved as well.
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
      I wonder if that's because you give a lot of value to remote work. It's full of people wanting to go back to the office too and that are really looking for day to day human interaction, so the value is way lower than if we consider the one that people who enjoy remote work give it.
    - chmod600 3y ago
      What does "should" mean? If I say "you should really get that cut checked out, it looks infected", then I'm making a recommendation to you or giving you advice (solicited or not). But here you seem to be giving advice to a class of jobs, which doesn't make a lot of sense. A class of jobs has no agency. Are you advising plumbers (one example of a blue collar job) to charge more for their services? I'm sure the thought occurred to them and it doesn't work for one reason or another. Are you advising customers of the plumber to pay more? Have you ever requested plumber services, and if so, did you pay the plumber "much more" (in other words, are you taking your own advice)?
    - lost_tourist 3y ago
      why should they though? They pay what the market will bear. They could pay a bit more if they would unionize successfully. Also lots of them do pay more when people take a risk and enter specialties and openly look for opportunity. You aren't going to make 100k digging ditches, but you can easily make that much as a plumber or electrician or machining expert.

csomar 3y ago

The world will never stop, not even for humans. On the other hand, if you have built a career around commercial office real-estate, the world might just have stopped for you. Still, live goes on.

jacknews 3y ago
Sure you have to feel sorry for realtors to some extent. But real-estate is at the very heart of the financial system, and therefore the economy if not the government. So this is not about individual careers or working preferences in themselves.
- lost_tourist 3y ago
  There are plenty people who are making money in real estate in other market though, why is office space special? No one cared when my Great-great grandpa Willy the wagon wheel maker lost his job because of cars.
- breakpointalpha 3y ago
  Horses were at the very heart of the American economy for over a hundred years, until the invention of steam power. Technology destroys old industries and creates new ones.

akudha 3y ago

I don't even turn my video on these days during calls. Most of my team mates don't. Some of them don't know how I look and I don't know how some of them look. And yet, we work well as a team. We are all in different cities and countries and work remote. Unless our physical presence is necessary (hairstylist, nurse, chef...), we should aggressively push back on "come to office 300 days a year" requirement. Only dumb middle managers and arrogant upper management (who probably have money invested in commercial real estate) think physical presence is required for all jobs. Either we work remote, or we improve housing and transportation. The former is easier to do while the latter is a near impossible problem to solve in the current political climate. Those who claim they build friendships etc at work, maybe genuinely ask yourselves - how many colleagues from your previous jobs do you really keep in touch?

sbarre 3y ago
This is fine for experienced workers who already know the job, but for anyone who is new (say first 2-5 years) or is looking for mentoring and growth/advancement opportunities, then the lack of in-person connections does hurt. > Those who claim they build friendships etc at work, maybe genuinely ask yourselves - how many colleagues from your previous jobs do you really keep in touch? I'll speak for myself and say that I am still regularly in touch with folks I worked at 4 jobs ago (12 years).. I guess it depends on why you are making those friendships, are you actually making friends or just looking to build social capital to give you advantage at work? It can certainly be both, but if you don't keep in touch when you move on, then maybe it was only the latter.
- akudha 3y ago
  I've a team member who is about a year out of college. He calls me 2-3 times a week asking for help on whatever task he is working on. His timezone is 10 hours ahead of mine. Mentoring is doable. Couple of months ago, there were some discussions on restricting remote work (thankfully it didn't go anywhere, at least not yet). He was distraught, as his commute was at least 90 minutes, one way. Obviously nothing beats face-to-face interactions. But we need to consider the cost of it too. 3 hours of commute a day? Paying for gas, childcare? Polluting the environment, clogging the roads? We can try to solve these problems with better infrastructure (like highspeed rails), banning corporations like BlackRock buying up large chunks of desirable neighborhoods/holding them hostage etc. That would require some serious effort and willpower, which seem hard to come by. As for relationships, I too have a handful of people from years ago that I keep in touch. This can certainly be a disadvantage with remote work, but we need to compromise somewhere...

HlessClaudesman 3y ago

Companies could surely recoup some of those imaginary billions by letting go of a whole layer of superfluous managers whose only role is to peer longingly into empty cubicles.

luvthis 3y ago
[dead]