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Anecdotally, I've never seen so many folks laid off on LinkedIn since I've been on the platform. Some are going on 3+ months. Recruiter spam is at all time lo

Anecdotally, I've never seen so many folks laid off on LinkedIn since I've been on the platform. Some are going on 3+ months. Recruiter spam is at all time lows. Are these companies getting by with less?

the_only_law 3y ago
They must be. I’ve been out much much longer than 3 months and I’m ruined now. I’ve had recruiters contact me talking about these roles they had that look like a perfect fit, nearly all of them ghosted me before any interview could happen. It’s totally an employers market now. Out of the few interviews I’ve managed to scrap together most have been shockingly hostile, feeling more like an interrogation than an interview. And I’m not just talking about tech companies, even the non tech companies seem to be doing this now.
- yterdy 3y ago
  There's a worker's rights movement sweeping large parts of the workforce right now. Businesses are being defensive, trying to lower expectations. It's a bit of a game of chicken; they're not actually "making due", but if they show their weakness, it gives labor an advantage. So they're feigning strength.
  - the_only_law 3y ago
    > Businesses are being defensive, trying to lower expectations. It's a bit of a game of chicken; They’re going to win. They have a much bigger war chest than me.
    - yterdy 3y ago
      Labor can shut everything down, working collectively. And it seems like they're trying. I wouldn't count them out.
      - bradlys 3y ago
        In the US? There’s nearly zero collective action in the US. Union participation in the US is a rounding error.
        mcphage 3y ago
        Well, there was a what, hundred year effort to poison the reputation of unions—which absolutely succeeded. But management won so completely, that labor is starting to remember why they created unions in the first place. Which is to say: you're right, but times may be changing.
        kevmo 3y ago
        That trend is reversing. There is a UPS strike right around the corner. More than 340,000 workers are set to go on strike on August 1 & they have hundreds of millions saved in strike funds. Every actor and writer in Hollywood is also on strike against the big studios. Unionizing is happening at its fastest clip in decades right now.
- mortenjorck 3y ago
  It took me six, and I had to accept a contract-to-hire position. I’m feeling pretty fortunate nonetheless, as it’s in an industry I wanted to get into, but it will still be another relief when I (hopefully) get that W-4. Don’t lose hope. Things can seem hopeless until one day, they aren’t.
switch007 3y ago
Our company is going all-in with outsourcing. Mostly Central/Eastern Europe. Only new employees are juniors or directors and above. The middle is being squeezed out massively. The excuse is always that the company has particular expertise (they really don’t)
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  I have to wonder how many competent software engineers there are in eastern Europe that aren’t already employed at companies there.
  - wonderwonder 3y ago
    I guess the real question is do they have to be competent if they can hire 3 of them for the price of 1 in the US? Edit: Thought I would add my current experience with this. My company is replacing contracted staff with permanent staff but out of South / Central America. The salaries are pretty much 1/4 of the US salaries. The people I am given to thumbs up / thumbs down (and that's very much what it is) are just ok. A couple are good but the rest are meh. I am allowed to thumbs down maybe 1 out of every 4 before I get push back. So this is very much a real thing where the US engineers are stuck filling in the gaps when the company onboards very cheap but not very good engineers. I am curious to see how this plays out in the long term
    - throwaway5959 3y ago
      I’d rather have one competent software engineer than three incompetent ones. At any price.
      - switch007 3y ago
        Then you aren’t ready to be a CTO at a public company! That long term thinking will get you nowhere!
        throwaway5959 3y ago
lr4444lr 3y ago
I think given the insanity we saw in 2021 with employees having the best upperhand they've had perhaps in a generation, we were due for some snapback. I'd refrain from worrying about anything long term until the end of this year.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
time0ut 3y ago
Every so often I set my LinkedIn profile to open to work to see what rolls in. In June, I was getting maybe 1/4th of the interest that I was in 2022. I am still confident I could find another position if needed, probably at reduced pay. The people I see struggling on LinkedIn that I know are all people I wouldn’t hire. Maybe its just the toxic people that are vocal enough for me to notice? Just my anecdote and doubt it reflects the wider market. On the hiring side, it seems to be harder than ever to get qualified candidates. We’ve given up even trying to tech screen and hire based on “attitude”. I feel stuck in a lose lose situation where I either OK a subpar candidate and hand hold them or continue to do all of the work. I suspect this has to do with the boring unsexy nature of the company, but it was never this bad in the past.
- tnel77 3y ago
  We have two open positions on my team and we have yet to fill them as management is “being picky” with candidates. With so many amazing candidates allegedly looking for work, I find it interesting that we haven’t found someone faster.
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  > On the hiring side, it seems to be harder than ever to get qualified candidates. We’ve given up even trying to tech screen and hire based on “attitude” I’m curious what your interview process is like.
  - time0ut 3y ago
    Pretty basic. Three one hour sessions with a manager, engineers, and final round with a director or VP. Sometimes we will do an extra session for more senior roles to follow up on stuff.
- flagrant_taco 3y ago
  Do you have the option of just not hiring anyone if no candidates come through that the team feels good about? I had one particular role where our team had the same issue and eventually really ticked off higher management when we kept open vacancies on the team for too long. They effectively said fill the spot soon or they'd move the headcount elsewhere, making for a really dumb choice between filling a seat or committing to be under resourced indefinitely.
paxys 3y ago
Every single company that did mass layoffs still has a greater headcount today than it did pre-2020. The layoffs were a function of the overhiring that happened in 2020-2022, nothing more.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  I think the reason is simpler - the leadership has no vision, they sont know where to apply the engineering talent.
vinyl7 3y ago
Companies hire during growth because that's just what you do to please the shareholders. I highly doubt a large portion of those who were hired were actually productive and producing any value for the company.

the_only_law 3y ago

They must be. I’ve been out much much longer than 3 months and I’m ruined now. I’ve had recruiters contact me talking about these roles they had that look like a perfect fit, nearly all of them ghosted me before any interview could happen. It’s totally an employers market now. Out of the few interviews I’ve managed to scrap together most have been shockingly hostile, feeling more like an interrogation than an interview. And I’m not just talking about tech companies, even the non tech companies seem to be doing this now.

yterdy 3y ago
There's a worker's rights movement sweeping large parts of the workforce right now. Businesses are being defensive, trying to lower expectations. It's a bit of a game of chicken; they're not actually "making due", but if they show their weakness, it gives labor an advantage. So they're feigning strength.
- the_only_law 3y ago
  > Businesses are being defensive, trying to lower expectations. It's a bit of a game of chicken; They’re going to win. They have a much bigger war chest than me.
  - yterdy 3y ago
    Labor can shut everything down, working collectively. And it seems like they're trying. I wouldn't count them out.
    - bradlys 3y ago
      In the US? There’s nearly zero collective action in the US. Union participation in the US is a rounding error.
      - mcphage 3y ago
        Well, there was a what, hundred year effort to poison the reputation of unions—which absolutely succeeded. But management won so completely, that labor is starting to remember why they created unions in the first place. Which is to say: you're right, but times may be changing.
      - kevmo 3y ago
        That trend is reversing. There is a UPS strike right around the corner. More than 340,000 workers are set to go on strike on August 1 & they have hundreds of millions saved in strike funds. Every actor and writer in Hollywood is also on strike against the big studios. Unionizing is happening at its fastest clip in decades right now.
mortenjorck 3y ago
It took me six, and I had to accept a contract-to-hire position. I’m feeling pretty fortunate nonetheless, as it’s in an industry I wanted to get into, but it will still be another relief when I (hopefully) get that W-4. Don’t lose hope. Things can seem hopeless until one day, they aren’t.

switch007 3y ago

Our company is going all-in with outsourcing. Mostly Central/Eastern Europe. Only new employees are juniors or directors and above. The middle is being squeezed out massively. The excuse is always that the company has particular expertise (they really don’t)

throwaway5959 3y ago
I have to wonder how many competent software engineers there are in eastern Europe that aren’t already employed at companies there.
- wonderwonder 3y ago
  I guess the real question is do they have to be competent if they can hire 3 of them for the price of 1 in the US? Edit: Thought I would add my current experience with this. My company is replacing contracted staff with permanent staff but out of South / Central America. The salaries are pretty much 1/4 of the US salaries. The people I am given to thumbs up / thumbs down (and that's very much what it is) are just ok. A couple are good but the rest are meh. I am allowed to thumbs down maybe 1 out of every 4 before I get push back. So this is very much a real thing where the US engineers are stuck filling in the gaps when the company onboards very cheap but not very good engineers. I am curious to see how this plays out in the long term
  - throwaway5959 3y ago
    I’d rather have one competent software engineer than three incompetent ones. At any price.
    - switch007 3y ago
      Then you aren’t ready to be a CTO at a public company! That long term thinking will get you nowhere!
      - throwaway5959 3y ago

lr4444lr 3y ago

I think given the insanity we saw in 2021 with employees having the best upperhand they've had perhaps in a generation, we were due for some snapback. I'd refrain from worrying about anything long term until the end of this year.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

time0ut 3y ago

Every so often I set my LinkedIn profile to open to work to see what rolls in. In June, I was getting maybe 1/4th of the interest that I was in 2022. I am still confident I could find another position if needed, probably at reduced pay. The people I see struggling on LinkedIn that I know are all people I wouldn’t hire. Maybe its just the toxic people that are vocal enough for me to notice? Just my anecdote and doubt it reflects the wider market. On the hiring side, it seems to be harder than ever to get qualified candidates. We’ve given up even trying to tech screen and hire based on “attitude”. I feel stuck in a lose lose situation where I either OK a subpar candidate and hand hold them or continue to do all of the work. I suspect this has to do with the boring unsexy nature of the company, but it was never this bad in the past.

tnel77 3y ago
We have two open positions on my team and we have yet to fill them as management is “being picky” with candidates. With so many amazing candidates allegedly looking for work, I find it interesting that we haven’t found someone faster.
throwaway5959 3y ago
> On the hiring side, it seems to be harder than ever to get qualified candidates. We’ve given up even trying to tech screen and hire based on “attitude” I’m curious what your interview process is like.
- time0ut 3y ago
  Pretty basic. Three one hour sessions with a manager, engineers, and final round with a director or VP. Sometimes we will do an extra session for more senior roles to follow up on stuff.
flagrant_taco 3y ago
Do you have the option of just not hiring anyone if no candidates come through that the team feels good about? I had one particular role where our team had the same issue and eventually really ticked off higher management when we kept open vacancies on the team for too long. They effectively said fill the spot soon or they'd move the headcount elsewhere, making for a really dumb choice between filling a seat or committing to be under resourced indefinitely.

paxys 3y ago

Every single company that did mass layoffs still has a greater headcount today than it did pre-2020. The layoffs were a function of the overhiring that happened in 2020-2022, nothing more.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago
I think the reason is simpler - the leadership has no vision, they sont know where to apply the engineering talent.

vinyl7 3y ago

Companies hire during growth because that's just what you do to please the shareholders. I highly doubt a large portion of those who were hired were actually productive and producing any value for the company.