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How does a handwritten signature prove anything? They are so easy to forge. I always wondered WHY ARE PEOPLE IN THE US ASKED TO SIGN A RECEIPT WHEN THEY PAY BY

by EGreg 3y ago

How does a handwritten signature prove anything? They are so easy to forge. I always wondered WHY ARE PEOPLE IN THE US ASKED TO SIGN A RECEIPT WHEN THEY PAY BY CREDIT CARD? I can draw literally any scraggles and they’ll accept it. Are they supposed to compare to the signature I put on my card?

LinAGKar 3y ago
Not just in the US. McDonald's does the same here in Sweden, or at least they used to (but AFAIK only McDonald's, and no one else). Always found that weird.
arcbyte 3y ago
The signature is just a physical manifesting of assent. It's presence is indicative that you've agreed to what you're signing. Signature comparison is a line of defense. More broadly, There's a whole set of practices that assume a relationship. You scoff at signatures, but in their heyday, my local banker knew me and knew my signature and he could spot a general forgery or even unusual patterns. Every economic transaction I engaged in came with a relationship that helped mitigate fraud. Even voting in the US today carries remnants of this. If you go to a small town to vote, you know the election workers and they know you. There's no need for an ID and there's no question of fraud. Everybody knows everybody. If you try to vote and nobody knows you, if you've got the paperwork, you'll get a smile and you'll vote, but you can bet your ballot is flagged for extra scrutiny afterwards. We need more of this system in the modern world.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Of course, even in large cities, IDs are not required for voting in many states. As you probably know, it's a very contentious topic.
  - arcbyte 3y ago
    Thats poor phrasing on my part. Voters dont generally need IDs in the US. I meant "need" in the sense that IDs aren't even a desired issue in the political process.
ghaff 3y ago
>Are they supposed to compare to the signature I put on my card? Probably historically; I think I've had it rarely in the distant past. Signatures are fairly uncommon these days. And the places where you sign a pad you just swipe a finger and no one blinks an eye. I'd say it was just outmoded POS systems but I've seen it on newer systems too. It probably does, as someone else wrote, constitute a bit more assent than clicking a button does even if not much.
indymike 3y ago
> I can draw literally any scraggles and they’ll accept it. Are they supposed to compare to the signature I put on my card? This is because we have video recording, PIN input, card not present payments and lots of other ways to prove the cardholder approved the payment. That said, if you are a merchant and want lower fees by requiring signatures, make sure you compare signatures with the back of the card, and make damn sure the card is actually signed (no by looking at a driver's license). An unsigned card signature dispute almost always ends up costing the merchant.
dotnet00 3y ago
I haven't had to sign for a while now, but when that was more common, I just assumed it was for your own ease of verification, since you could see the signature alongside the transaction online/in-app and so if you see a transaction you don't remember, you can just check the signature to see if it's like what you typically do.

by EGreg 3y ago

LinAGKar 3y ago

Not just in the US. McDonald's does the same here in Sweden, or at least they used to (but AFAIK only McDonald's, and no one else). Always found that weird.

arcbyte 3y ago

The signature is just a physical manifesting of assent. It's presence is indicative that you've agreed to what you're signing. Signature comparison is a line of defense. More broadly, There's a whole set of practices that assume a relationship. You scoff at signatures, but in their heyday, my local banker knew me and knew my signature and he could spot a general forgery or even unusual patterns. Every economic transaction I engaged in came with a relationship that helped mitigate fraud. Even voting in the US today carries remnants of this. If you go to a small town to vote, you know the election workers and they know you. There's no need for an ID and there's no question of fraud. Everybody knows everybody. If you try to vote and nobody knows you, if you've got the paperwork, you'll get a smile and you'll vote, but you can bet your ballot is flagged for extra scrutiny afterwards. We need more of this system in the modern world.

ghaff 3y ago
Of course, even in large cities, IDs are not required for voting in many states. As you probably know, it's a very contentious topic.
- arcbyte 3y ago
  Thats poor phrasing on my part. Voters dont generally need IDs in the US. I meant "need" in the sense that IDs aren't even a desired issue in the political process.

ghaff 3y ago

>Are they supposed to compare to the signature I put on my card? Probably historically; I think I've had it rarely in the distant past. Signatures are fairly uncommon these days. And the places where you sign a pad you just swipe a finger and no one blinks an eye. I'd say it was just outmoded POS systems but I've seen it on newer systems too. It probably does, as someone else wrote, constitute a bit more assent than clicking a button does even if not much.

indymike 3y ago

> I can draw literally any scraggles and they’ll accept it. Are they supposed to compare to the signature I put on my card? This is because we have video recording, PIN input, card not present payments and lots of other ways to prove the cardholder approved the payment. That said, if you are a merchant and want lower fees by requiring signatures, make sure you compare signatures with the back of the card, and make damn sure the card is actually signed (no by looking at a driver's license). An unsigned card signature dispute almost always ends up costing the merchant.

dotnet00 3y ago

I haven't had to sign for a while now, but when that was more common, I just assumed it was for your own ease of verification, since you could see the signature alongside the transaction online/in-app and so if you see a transaction you don't remember, you can just check the signature to see if it's like what you typically do.