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I think hiring more women has powerfully positive effects throughout an org. I agree hiring "races" is counter-productive. It creates more racism and division t

I think hiring more women has powerfully positive effects throughout an org. I agree hiring "races" is counter-productive. It creates more racism and division than it intends to solve. The idea that I am uniquely Black or you are uniquely Asian doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's a broad spectrum we insist on reifying. How Black should I be to claim the Black experience? Leaning on the common struggle as the wage class is what unites. The unique focus on how oppressed each of us are turns us all into victims. It's not really something I've seen in my lifetime before the last ten years and I think it's garbage in, garbage out.

gruez 3y ago
>I think hiring more women has powerfully positive effects throughout an org. I agree hiring "races" is counter-productive. It creates more racism and division than it intends to solve. The idea that I am uniquely Black or you are uniquely Asian doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's a broad spectrum we insist on reifying. How Black should I be to claim the Black experience? All the points you raised against hiring based on race can also be used to be against based on gender. Why do you think one is "powerfully positive" and the other is "counter-productive"?
- emptysongglass 3y ago
  Well, for one, they're 51% of the world's population. We also have studies that demonstrate positive influence in more gender-equal workplaces. "The lowest overall occurrence of psychological distress as well as same occurrence for women and men was found on the most gender equal workplaces." [1] The distinction of sex occurs everywhere throughout nature. At a broad level, it's consistent. The amount of melanin in your skin is not. There is a spectrum of mind-blowing diversity in facial features among Black, Hispanic, Asian, White, whatever. In this category, what divides us spans a multitude. It's a cudgel we heft to beat our fellow human being with. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3541387/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3541387/
  - gruez 3y ago
    >Well, for one, they're 51% of the world's population. Asia makes up 59.4% of the world population, and Africa makes up 17.6%. Europe and North America by comparison only makes up 9.4% and 7.5% respectively. >We also have studies that demonstrate positive influence in more gender-equal workplaces. There are studies that do the same for ethnicity. With a cursory search I found: https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inclusion/diversity-wins-how-inclusion-matters https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inc... "In the case of ethnic and cultural diversity, our business-case findings are equally compelling: in 2019, top-quartile companies outperformed those in the fourth one by 36 percent in profitability, slightly up from 33 percent in 2017 and 35 percent in 2014. As we have previously found, the likelihood of outperformance continues to be higher for diversity in ethnicity than for gender." >The distinction of sex occurs everywhere throughout nature. At a broad level, it's consistent. >The amount of melanin in your skin is not. But no ethnic/racial diversity proponent would claim that the benefits comes from the difference in amounts of melanin in someone's skin, just like no pro gender diversity proponent would claim the benefits come from the shape of someone's genitals. The equivalent would be something like "distinction of cultures/language" occurs everywhere throughout nature, which as so far as we know is true. Whales of the same species have different calls depending on where they're from, for instance.
    - emptysongglass 3y ago
      It seems like you were more interested in setting me up for a trap than steel-manning me. My primary objection is to the reification of race, which drives us to compete for ideas of purity that don't really exist. And that is happening, especially in American workplaces. It's contributing to more outrage, not less. I don't think that's healthy for anyone.

gruez 3y ago

>I think hiring more women has powerfully positive effects throughout an org. I agree hiring "races" is counter-productive. It creates more racism and division than it intends to solve. The idea that I am uniquely Black or you are uniquely Asian doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's a broad spectrum we insist on reifying. How Black should I be to claim the Black experience? All the points you raised against hiring based on race can also be used to be against based on gender. Why do you think one is "powerfully positive" and the other is "counter-productive"?

emptysongglass 3y ago
Well, for one, they're 51% of the world's population. We also have studies that demonstrate positive influence in more gender-equal workplaces. "The lowest overall occurrence of psychological distress as well as same occurrence for women and men was found on the most gender equal workplaces." [1] The distinction of sex occurs everywhere throughout nature. At a broad level, it's consistent. The amount of melanin in your skin is not. There is a spectrum of mind-blowing diversity in facial features among Black, Hispanic, Asian, White, whatever. In this category, what divides us spans a multitude. It's a cudgel we heft to beat our fellow human being with. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3541387/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3541387/
- gruez 3y ago
  >Well, for one, they're 51% of the world's population. Asia makes up 59.4% of the world population, and Africa makes up 17.6%. Europe and North America by comparison only makes up 9.4% and 7.5% respectively. >We also have studies that demonstrate positive influence in more gender-equal workplaces. There are studies that do the same for ethnicity. With a cursory search I found: https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inclusion/diversity-wins-how-inclusion-matters https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inc... "In the case of ethnic and cultural diversity, our business-case findings are equally compelling: in 2019, top-quartile companies outperformed those in the fourth one by 36 percent in profitability, slightly up from 33 percent in 2017 and 35 percent in 2014. As we have previously found, the likelihood of outperformance continues to be higher for diversity in ethnicity than for gender." >The distinction of sex occurs everywhere throughout nature. At a broad level, it's consistent. >The amount of melanin in your skin is not. But no ethnic/racial diversity proponent would claim that the benefits comes from the difference in amounts of melanin in someone's skin, just like no pro gender diversity proponent would claim the benefits come from the shape of someone's genitals. The equivalent would be something like "distinction of cultures/language" occurs everywhere throughout nature, which as so far as we know is true. Whales of the same species have different calls depending on where they're from, for instance.
  - emptysongglass 3y ago
    It seems like you were more interested in setting me up for a trap than steel-manning me. My primary objection is to the reification of race, which drives us to compete for ideas of purity that don't really exist. And that is happening, especially in American workplaces. It's contributing to more outrage, not less. I don't think that's healthy for anyone.